Ontario Photo Card – Two Thumbs Down for ServiceOntario

Update: see previous posts – July 25, 2011 Photo Identification Card Available In Ontario Beginning Today, June 10, 2011 New Ontario Government Photo I.D. Card (For Those Without a Driver’s Licence), November 30, 2008 Bill 85 – Photo Card Act 2008 (Ontario) Enhanced Driver’s Licence/Photo Identification

Fightyourtickets would like to share an experience with one of the two ServiceOntario locations in Toronto that accept and process applications for the Ontario Photo Card.

Today, the McGuinty government announced that Ontario is now making it easier for seniors — age 80 and over — to renew their health cards from the comfort of their own homes.  Why wouldn’t the same policy also apply for Photo Cards, given that it is much more difficult to apply for this government identification, with only 21 locations offering it out of 300 province-wide?

If ServiceOntario makes a mistake when they type out the application and you don’t catch it before it is entered into the system, you will be returning to do the paperwork, I.D. and photo again.

It is important to recognize from the beginning that only those without driver’s licences can apply for the Photo Card and that all of those showing up to 21 ServiceOntario locations (in 19 cities) to submit their applications, will have to take public transit or pick up a ride in order to arrive at a ServiceOntario location.

I went to one of the only two locations ( 1025 Lake Shore Blvd East, M4M 1B4 – inside the Canadian Tire Store on the 2nd floor) with my 16-year-old son, to apply for the Ontario Health Card and the Ontario Photo Card.

The clerk serving him, asked for alot of identification and upon receiving it (Passport, Birth Certificate, Social Insurance Card, Student Card and his Report Card) photocopied it all and returned the identification.

The applications for the Health & Photo Cards were filled out.  His pictures for both cards were taken. She then printed off papers and asked my son to simply sign them and date them, which he promptly did.  At no time did she request that he scrutinize the documents for their accuracy, before signing them.

She also advised my son that he should apply for a driver’s licence immediately as this was the “best” identification to have.  He looked confused and asked me if that was true and I told him it was not and reminded the clerk that she should not be providing information to the public which was both inaccurate and misleading.

After we received copies of the applications we left Canadian Tire and drove home.

About a week later, the purple card arrived in the mail.  The last letter in the last name was incorrect.  In response, I called ServiceOntario, convinced it was a simple typo and that it could be fixed without any problem, given that they had taken my son’s picture (which is stored digitally on their system) and that they had photocopies of the voluminous identification presented on the day of the application.  I was told that this was not possible, given that the photocopies were sent to the city of Kingston, Ontario and that the physical Photo Card was generated elsewhere.  I was told that I would have to return and do the process all over again.

After several phone-calls and then an email, the message was always the same, we had to return back to the same location to do the whole process over again.

Later, the new Health Card arrived in the mail, with the correct address and spelling of the surname.

When we finally were able to do so, we went together back to the ServiceOntario location at  1025 Lake Shore Blvd East, M4M 1B4 – inside the Canadian Tire Store on the 2nd floor.

This is the camera located at the ServiceOntario location inside the Canadian Tire at 1025 Lake Shore Blvd East which takes your a photo of your face, for the purposes of photo identification.  If ServiceOntario makes a mistake and you don’t catch it at the time it’s made; be prepared to take another trip down to the location for a second time and complete a second application, produce all of your identification again and have your picture taken again, for the second time.

I explained to the clerk what had transpired and he asked for my son’t passport (which he photocopied) and looked at the Photo Card and said that the photo would have to be done again.  My son stood in front of the camera and had his picture taken for the second time.

When the clerk brought out the piece of paper, I noticed that it still had the original date of application on it, meaning that the Photo Card which cost $35 for five (5) years would now be generated, with all of the time between the first application and receiving it in the mail the second time, would be time lost.  In other words, you pay for five (5) years but you cannot have it for five (5) years to use, as you wait for the processing time and to receive it in the mail before you can actually use it.

I noticed the discrepancy and asked that the new Photo Card reflect the second application date, not the first one.  I asked the clerk how long it would take to come in the mail the second time and he said “one to three months”.  This would mean that if you added the time between the first application date and finally receiving a “valid card” would mean that you would lose a lot of time off that five year period.

I offered to pay for the time between the first application and the second application, in order to receive a Photo Card which carried the maximum amount of time.  He made a phone call and told me that the person on the other end said it couldn’t be done.  I then asked him to just cancel the old card (since my son had just applied for a new card) and that I would pay for a new card.  He said, based on his conversation with the person on the other end of the phone, that I could not do that.

After speaking to the person on the other end, he said that the original clerk is responsible for the mistake, it was my 16-year-old son who was responsible, given that he should have looked at it before he signed it.  I reminded him that at no time did the clerk who prepared and typed the document ask him to review it for its’ accuracy and in fact, she just asked him to sign it and he did.  She provided him with a yellow copy of the Application with the debit receipt stapled over the information (the last name) which was now in dispute.

He pushed my son’s Photo Card towards me and said “hold onto this, you need to use it until a new one is sent out”, I told him that this didn’t make any sense, given that the card was invalid as the surname was mispelled.

I asked him for the name of the person on the other end and he said he couldn’t give me a name, but that he could give me a number and I declined.  I asked him if he had a name and he said “we can’t give out our names only our numbers”.  I asked him for his number and he said “operator number three”.

We both walked away feeling frustrated.

I contacted my MPP and her assistant helped me.  I told her that I had a number of questions of the Ministry of Transport., given my experience and told her that I wanted to do a blog to ensure others were spared same experience.

She suggested that I put my questions into an email and that she would send them to the appropriate person for a response.

Here are the questions and the subsequent responses from the Ministry of Transporation:

Thank you for your feedback regarding the Ontario Photo Card. We are sorry to hear about your experience at the ServiceOntario location at 1025 Lake Shore Blvd East and regret the inconvenience this caused you.

We have compiled a list of answers to your questions below. Your feedback is valuable to us and will help us further improve our services.


1.  Why are there only two (2) ServiceOntario locations that process this identification, not centrally located, in a city of the size of Toronto?  Ottawa, which has a sustantially lower population, has two (one downtown,centrally located at the City Hall) and Barrie with a total population of 200,000 has a ServiceOntario location which processes the Ontario Photo Card?

We recognize the great value that this new product brings to many Ontarians and are working hard to make the card accessible to all residents of Ontario through all of our ServiceOntario locations. The locations we chose for the initial launch were assessed based on their proximity to public transit, accessibility for persons with disabilities and ability to introduce new services without impacting existing ones. As this is a new product, we felt it prudent to begin the rollout in a controlled manner, to ensure reduced impact on the already existing services that ServiceOntario offers and on our customers. 

We are currently developing a schedule to rollout the Ontario Photo Card service to the additional 250+ ServiceOntario locations, including all the remaining ServiceOntario locations in Toronto.  We are committed to having the service available at all our locations by December 31st, 2012.


2.  If ServiceOntario makes a mistake, such as they did here, why won’t they simply fix the problem without forcing us to take time to come back the same ServiceOntario location?

ServiceOntario is committed to providing Ontarians fast, friendly and easy access to services. When mistakes occur, ServiceOntario attempts to rectify them in the most customer friendly way possible. We recognize and value our customer’s time and would not ask them to return to a centre, unless absolutely necessary.

In the case of any changes to data for the Ontario Photo Card, such as the spelling of the last name, we require the customer to return to the office. To protect the privacy and integrity of the data and the Ontario Photo Card, clerks are not able to make changes without having the customer present for a new photo and signature.


3.      Where are the photocopies of the identification stored and maintained?

The photocopies of the identification are sent to Kingston where they are microfilmed. The photocopies are securely destroyed after a holding period.


3(a)   How long is this maintained and what happens to the information once the time limit expires?

The microfilm is stored in Kingston for 5 years. After 5 years, records are transferred to the archive and retained for an additional 5 years. Following that, the records are securely destroyed.
3(b)   Are hard-copies maintained or are they transferred to a digital data bank?

The photocopied hard copies are transferred to Microfilm. The photocopied hard copies are securely destroyed after a holding period.


4.  If ServiceOntario makes a mistake, is it their policy to admit it and apologize or is the policy to shift blame to a 16-year-old?

If an agent makes an error an application, ServiceOntario attempts to rectify the issue in the most customer friendly way possible. We are sorry to hear that in this case you felt the blame was shifted to your son.


5.  Should the clerk have insisted that my son take the necessary time to scrutinize the Application for Ontario Photo Card to ensure that the information contained within the form was both accurate and correct?

When signing any documents, regardless of what it is, it’s good practice for all applicants to review any information prior to signing. In addition, it is practice for the agents to verify any information they enter; errors can still happen, and we apologize the typo was missed.

 

If you notice she does not answer the question and shares the belief that even if the clerk does not ask the 16-year-old customer, that customer should know better,



6.  What is ServiceOntario’s internal policy with respect to the length of time it should take to process the Application for Ontario Photo Card and mail the Photo Card to the applicant – what is the timeframe?

 

The standard timeframe to receive the Ontario Photo Card from the date of application is 4-6 weeks. In many cases, depending on the circumstances, cards are issued earlier than that timeframe. 
If that is so, why were we told “one to three months”?


7.  Why couldn’t the original card have been cancelled (given the fact that it was invalid) and a new application taken in its place?

 

The clerk was correct in treating this as a change of information. There are system constraints that require the client to come in to re-do a new signature and photo, and any changes to the name is one of those constraints. A new application would have incurred the full fee, as the Ontario Photo Card is a non-refundable item. 

I offered to pay the full fee for the new application, given that my son would now receive a Photo Card with five years full of worth and my offer and request was refused.

This is what Bill 85 – the Photo Card Act, the legislation covering this situation states:

Cancellation of photo card

10. (1)  The Minister may cancel a photo card if,

(a) the Minister is satisfied that the photo card was used in the commission of an offence under section 13 or 15;

(b) the Minister is satisfied that the holder of the photo card committed an offence under section 13, 14 or 15;

(c) the Minister is satisfied that any information provided by the holder of a photo card under this Act is false;

(d) the Minister is satisfied that any information appearing on the photo card is incorrect; or

(e) the payment of a fee in respect of the photo card is dishonoured.

 

8.  When a clerk is serving a customer and the customer requests their name, is it the policy of ServiceOntario that the clerk does not provide their name, just an arbitrary number?

ServiceOntario does not have a specific policy with regards to clerks providing their names. The operator number can be used internally, when required, to verify which clerk completed the application and address any service delivery issues.  We will ensure that the details of this transaction are shared with the Site Manager. 

 

In other words, he was right, clerks at ServiceOntario do not have to provide their names and this will not be changing in the near future. 

 


9.  Was it absolutely necessary for my son and I to have to go back to ServiceOntario to redo the application, could anything else have been done by ServiceOntario to avoid the second trip?

In the case of any changes to data for the Ontario Photo Card, such as the spelling of the last name, we require the customer to return to the office. To protect the privacy and integrity of the data and the Ontario Photo Card, clerks are not able to make changes without having the customer present for a new photo and signature.  

 

This is difficult to understand, given that ServiceOntario had the photo and all of the identification photocopied on file and that it was just a matter of changing the last letter of the last name (which could have been easily corroborated with the photocopies on file.  They made mistake with regard to the Photo Card, but not the Health Card, which they could have looked at as well.

The Provincial government put a press release today that said “McGuinty Government Making It Easier To Access Government Services”. The Province’s new mail-in renewal service for seniors age 80 and over allows them to apply for their new cards by completing and signing the back of their renewal notices and returning them to ServiceOntario in a pre-addressed envelope. This means they won’t have to wait in lines or make trips through winter weather to renew their health cards anymore.

Why couldn’t this also apply to the Health Card across the Province?

Thank you again for taking the time to provide your feedback. 

We look forward to serving you in the near future.

 

There are only two Service locations in Toronto that process the Photo Card applications; one in the north end at Sheppard Ave E & Yonge St (47 Sheppard Avenue East, 4th Flr Unit 417, M2N 5N1) and the other in the southeast at Lakeshore Ave E & Leslie St (1025 Lake Shore Blvd East, M4M 1B4) inside the Canadian Tire store, on the second floor. These locations opened on July 25, 2011 and the provincial government promised to have this service available at all 300 locations at the end of the this year.

The Province of Ontario was the second-last Province to roll out a Photo Card identification. Apparently, the McGuinty Liberal government decided to roll out the Photo Card in only 19 cities in Ontario (21 locations in 19 cities) through its’ ServiceOntario locations, commencing on July 25, 2011. The McGuinty government could not have seriously looked at the population of the 19 cities or the ServiceOntario locations at which one could apply for the Photo Card, for the potential 1.5 million Ontarians over 16-years-old that need a card, given that they don’t have driver’s licences.

See List of the 100 largest municipalities in Canada by population, whose numbers, based on the 2006 Census, is used in the 21 ServiceOntario location chart, at which a Photo Card Application can be processed at.

ServiceOntario Centres offering Photo Card services

Location & Population Population determined by Stats. Can. in 2006Address
Barrie –                     177,061320 Bayfield Street, L4M 3C1
Chatham –                 108,177455 Grand Avenue East, N7L 1X3
Cornwall –                   45,965113 Second Street East, K6H 1H5
Hamilton –                 504,559119 King Street West, L8P 4Y7
Kingston –                 117,2071650 Bath Road, K7K 4B1
Kirkland Lake –             8,24810 Government Road East, P2N 3M6
Kitchener –                451,2351151 Victoria Street, North, Unit 5, N3B 3C5
London –                   457,7201790 Dundas Street East., N5W 3E5
Mississauga –             668,5491151 Dundas Street West, L5B 2T4
North Bay –                 53,966392 Airport Rd, P1B 8X1
Oshawa –                  141,590419 King St W, L1J 7J2
Ottawa –                   812,1291309 Carling Avenue, K1Z 7L3
Ottawa –                   812,129110 Laurier Ave. West, K1P 1J1
Sault Ste. Marie –        74,948420 Queen Street, P6A 1Z7
Sioux Lookout –            5,33662 Queen Street, P8T 1A2
St. Catharines –        390,317301 St. Paul Street, L2R 7R4
Sudbury –                157,85740 Elm Street, P3C 1S8
Thunder Bay –          109,1401020 Dawson Road, P7B 1K0
Tor.(Can.Tire) –     2,723,2811025 Lake Shore Blvd East, M4M 1B4
Toronto –              2,723,28147 Sheppard Avenue East, 4th Flr Unit 417, M2N 5N1
Windsor –                216,473400 City Hall Square East, N9A 7K6

 

The ServiceOntario location in the Canadian Tire located at 1025 Lake Shore Blvd East, M4M 1B4 in Toronto – this is one of two locations to apply for the Ontario Photo Card in Toronto to serve 2.72 million residents.  The McGuinty Liberals have promised to roll-out the Photo Card at all 300 ServiceOntario locations by the end of 2012

Acceptable Identity Documents for an Ontario Photo Card

You must provide identification documents that prove your legal name, date of birth and signature in order to receive an Ontario Photo Card. The lists below indicate what documents will satisfy these requirements.

Expired ID documents are not acceptable (with the exception of an Ontario driver’s licence or Ontario enhanced driver’s licence that is expired less than one year).

List 1: Only one document is required to satisfy all three data elements

Identity Documents

Legal Name1

Date of Birth

Signature

1. Passport – Canadian2

Yes

Yes

Yes

2. Passport – Foreign2

Yes

Yes

Yes

3. Canadian Citizenship Card with photo3

Yes

Yes

Yes

4. Canadian Permanent Resident Card

Yes

Yes

Yes

5. Record of Landing (Form IMM 1000)Exceptions: see footnotes 2, 4

Yes

Yes

Yes

6. Confirmation of Permanent Resident Form (IMM 5292)

Yes

Yes

Yes

7. Refugee Status Claim (IMM 1434) Exception: see footnote 2

Yes

Yes

Yes

8. Acknowledgement of Intent to Claim Refugee Status (IMM 7703) with photo

Yes

Yes

Yes

9. Report Pursuant to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IMM 1442) with photo5

Yes

Yes

Yes

10. Student Authorization/Study Permit (Form 1442)5

Yes

Yes

Yes

11. Employment Authorization /Work Permit (Form 1442)5

Yes

Yes

Yes

12. Visitor Record (Form 1442)5

Yes

Yes

Yes

13. Temporary Resident’s Permit (IMM 1442)5– formerly Minister’s Permit/Extension of Minister’s Permit

Yes

Yes

Yes

14. Secure Certificate of Indian Status Card- issued by the Canadian Federal Government

Yes

Yes

Yes

15. Driver’s Licence or Enhanced Driver’s Licence – issued by Ontario6, 7

Yes

Yes

Yes

List 2: Two documents are required to satisfy all three data elements

Identity Documents

Legal Name1

Date of Birth

Signature

1. Birth Certificate issued by a Canadian or US jurisdiction8

Yes

Yes

N/A

2. Certified Copy of Marriage Certificate (issued by Ontario only)

Yes

N/A

N/A

3. Certified Copy of Statement of Live Birth (issued by Ontario only)

Yes

Yes

N/A

4. Canadian Certificate of Indian Status – issued by the Canadian Federal Government

Yes

N/A

Yes

5. Driver’s Licence or Enhanced Driver’s Licence – issued by another Canadian or a US jurisdiction

N/A

N/A

Yes

6. Identity Card – issued by a Canadian or US jurisdiction

N/A

N/A

Yes

7. Ontario Health Card

N/A

N/A

Yes

8. Ontario Student Card with signature9

N/A

N/A

Yes

9. Declaration from a Guarantor SR-LD-4010

N/A

N/A

Yes

10. Department of National Defence (DND) identity card

N/A

N/A

Yes

List 3: Supporting Documents

Identity Documents

Legal Name1

Date of Birth

Signature

1. Government issued proof of marriage document

  • Canadian or foreign
  • issued by federal/provincial/territorial/state government
  • original or certified copy

Support document for proof of change of surname only. This support document allows applicant to adopt spouse’s surname for use on Ontario photo card. Religious institution/church/ceremony-issued proof of marriage documents are not acceptable.

Yes

N/A

N/A

2. Change of Name Certificate

  • Canadian or foreign
  • issued by federal/provincial/territorial/state government

Support document for proof of change of name only.

Yes

N/A

N/A

3. Court Order, showing legal name, date of birth and court seal

  • obtained for purposes of name change, divorce, or adoption

Support document for proof of change of name, change of surname only, for adoption, and for change to date of birth (as proof of new name and date of birth).

Yes

Yes

N/A

4. Sworn Affidavit with support documents11Where no date of birth or only partial date of birth (e.g. only the year) is available, a Sworn Affidavit with support documents is required to confirm the date of birth.

N/A

Yes

N/A

Footnotes

1 The legal name is the one registered at birth or the one changed legally through adoption, court order/Change of Name Certificate or marriage.

2 Applicants identified as a child on their parent’s Passport/Record of Landing/Refugee Status Claim must provide an additional document that provides proof of his/her signature, e.g., a valid U.S. or Canadian driver’s licence/identity card, an Ontario student card, or if these are not available, an applicant may voluntarily produce a valid Ontario Health Card.

3 Citizenship and Immigration Canada regards the name on the non-picture side of the Canadian citizenship cards, issued until the late 1990s, as the legal name since this name is taken from a birth certificate or an immigration document; therefore, the name on the non-picture side of these cards can be used to create an applicant’s photo card record.

4 If information on Record of Landing (IMM 1000) is amended, an IMM 1436 is issued. The IMM 1436 must then be accompanied by the IMM 1000.

5 Canadian Immigration Form 1442 (commonly used for Student Authorization/Study Permit, Employment Authorization/Work Permit, Visitor Record or Temporary Resident’s Permit) only satisfies the signature data element if there is a pre-printed area on the form for the holder’s signature. Applicants who present a Canadian Immigration Form 1442 without a pre-printed area for the holder’s signature must provide another piece of acceptable identification that proves their signature.

6 An Ontario driver’s licence fulfils all three data elements (legal name, date of birth and signature). Exception: the name on the driver’s licence must follow the current naming policy. If the driver’s licence does not comply with the standard, additional ID is required. For example, if the first name on the licence is “J-David,” additional ID documents are required to prove that “J-David” or “James David” is the applicant’s full name.

7 Licence must not be expired for more than one year.

8 A birth certificate that indicates the certificate is “void if laminated” will not be accepted if it is laminated. Quebec birth certificates issued before January 1, 1994 are not acceptable.

9 Ontario Student Card must bear the applicant’s signature which must match the signature on the application form. The validity of the Ontario Student Card is based on its expiry date. If a specific date is indicated on the card, e.g. day/month/year, that date is to be taken as the expiry date. If a validation period, e.g. 2005/2006, is indicated on the card, that card is considered valid up to and including December 31, 2006. This card can be accepted as identification of proof of signature only. The signed Ontario Student Card can be accepted for proof of signature if the signature portion is part of the card. However, if the student card does not have a signature requirement as part of its issuance process, subsequent signing of the card is not acceptable as proof of signature. If the applicant does not have any other document to prove his/her signature, the applicant may present a Declaration from a Guarantor.

10 All applicants for an original photo card, regardless of age, who do not have the standard proof of signature documentation, will be allowed to present a completed Declaration from a Guarantor attesting to their signature at the time of licence application. These applicants are still required to provide original identification document(s) that prove legal name and date of birth.

11 The sworn affidavit must be signed by a Commissioner of Oaths/Notary Public, and must state the legal name, date of birth and reason why no date of birth or only partial date of birth is available. Supporting documents include:
certified copies of school records
employment records or place of worship records with an original seal or stamp indicating “certified true copy” signed by an authorized signing officer for the institution or organization (if there is no such seal or stamp, a statement from the authorized signing officer indicating that the record is a certified true copy is acceptable)
Form 39 (formerly Form 37) issued by the Office of the Registrar General of Ontario and is for a child born in another country and adopted in Ontario, or
– an insurance policy that has been in effect for more than three years.

 

A comparison was done between the LCBO’s BYID Card (see: BYID card (LCBO) versus the Photo Card (Ontario) – Which is the Best to Have?) and the BYID Card was considered the best, given that for $30.00 you could use this card for 16 years (between the age of 19 and 35) and that for the same period of time, the Photo Card would cost you $140.00 and at least four (4) trips to a ServiceOntario location to line-up and wait, submit the application, show all of your identification and have your photo taken, each time.

The only difference is that you cannot receive your BYID Card until you are 19-years-old, versus the Photo Card which you can receive at the age of 16.

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14 comments

  1. How long did it take for your son to receive the purple card? I applied las week, and I am hoping to get it sometime this week!

    Thanks…

  2. i applied for my OPID card last week and had a lot of problems..but i noticed in the fine print that birth certificates from quebec before jan 1 1994 are not accepted…but mine was no questions asked. i hope i don’t get a notice saying that i can’t use my birth cert as id even though service ontario took it, because i will be on fire when if i have to go back lol.

  3. I went in yesterday for my card, they took my info, verified it, twice, and had an overall pleasant customer service experience.

    Customers like you are the worst kind of people. Firstly, at the time of this article, it was a new system, and you simply could not accept the fact that people make mistakes, ESPECIALLY during the beginning. So you wrote an article crying about how awful and terrible they are in hopes that you could get your time back, trying to make them look like they don’t have half a brain. I sincerely hoped those people laughed at your oh so devastating frustration because they more than deserved to.

  4. If you haven’t followed already, the Ontario Photo Card is now available at all ServiceOntario locations in the Toronto area and outside of the areas with the goal on having the service available at all ServiceOntario locations by the end of this year.

    Source:
    http://news.ontario.ca/mgs/en/2012/05/ontario-photo-card-coming-to-all-serviceontario-centres.html
    http://news.ontario.ca/mgs/en/2012/05/ontario-photo-card-available-at-toronto-area-serviceontario-centres.html

  5. Fantastic web site. Plenty of useful info here. I’m sending it to some pals and additionally sharing in delicious. And obviously, thanks to your sweat!

  6. My brother recommended I may like this blog. He used to be totally right. This post actually made my day. You can not believe just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks!

  7. Hi Scott:
    I hope that you’re not suggesting that a 16-year-old boy or girl in Ontario cannot proceed to any ServiceOntario on their own, in order to apply for their Ontario Health Card or Ontario Photo Card or Ontario Driver’s Licence and that they need to have their parent(s) in tow. Hopefully we all want to assist our children to be confident, responsible and independent.

    It’s obvious that you work at ServiceOntario and have taken this post personally. I don’t blame any of the clerks working at ServiceOntario, this isn’t their fault – it is a fault within the system. This post isn’t meant to be personal and only reflects one experience of a 16-year-old (even you were 16 years old at one time) trying to secure an Ontario Photo Card. If the system isn’t broke, don’t fix it, but if it could be tweeked to make the service better, then why not? Every Ontarian benefits from this tweek? So don’t freak, it is only about a tweek.

  8. That’s why mom is supposedly there, and MOM should have known better than simply signing something, and MOM should not have to specifically be told “make sure you check it over” and MOM should be teaching her son that simple life lesson…..not teaching her son that when you screw up, blame the someone else and then rant about it on a blog.

    Lord knows the government is to blame for just about everything wrong in our society, but in this case, mom screwed up and she’s trying shift the blame. If there was an error on the application, MOM and son should have caught it, not the government clerk…heck MOM and son should have filled out the form themselves, not the government clerk. It’s readily available on the same internet she’s using to try and blame her screw up on someone else.

  9. Hi Scott:
    This is probably the reason that sixteen (16) year old children can’t enter into or sign legal contracts, without their parent’s consent.

  10. Hey mom, I have a great idea. Hows about teaching your sign that signing a legal document without first verifying it is ALWAYS a good idea and you shouldn’t have to specifically be told that. You know, that why the application specifically says “I certify that the statements on this form are correct” right above where you sign it. It also specifically says right below your signature that making false statements (read: signing it when it’s wrong) is illegal.

    How about teaching your son some personal responsibility rather than teaching him to shift blame for his mistakes?

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