Noise By-Law – Motorcycles (Edmonton)

Update:

On Wednesday, June 9, 2010 City Councillors of the City of Edmonton voted in favour (Ward 6 City Councillor Dave Thiele was the only councillor present who opposed this new by-law) of a noise by-law that would allow police (armed with sound meters) to issue tickets with a $250.00 fine to the operators of motorcycles, whose motorcycle is generating sound louder than 92 decibels (while idling) or 96 decibels when the motorcycle is not in idle mode.

Mr. Dave Thiele (Ward 6), the only city councillor to vote against the noise bylaw, argued the measure is “illogical and discriminatory.” He pointed out Edmonton has approximately 13,000 registered motorcycles, while hundreds of thousands of cars are on the road. Mr. Thiele believes that if an excessive noise bylaw is to target anyone, it should be applied equally to all motor vehicles, as opposed to discriminating against motorcycles only.

See a Decibel (Loudness) Comparison Chart. This chart will give you an idea of how much sound is being emitted at 92 or 96 decibels.

The amendment to the Community Standards Bylaw 14600 is viewed as an effective enforcement tool to deal with excessively loud motorcycles. The bylaw amendment broadens the current measuring standards for sound level meter testing and establishes the offence that no person shall operate a motorcycle that is capable of emitting sound exceeding 92 decibels while at idle, or 96 decibels while the engine speed is greater than idle.  The bylaw amendment carries a fine of $250.

In anticipation of this Bylaw Amendment, Edmonton Police have purchased eight (8) noise meter kits, at a cost of $3000.00 per kit. Police would use these noise meters to measure sound emitted from motorcycle exhaust mufflers, as measured at 50 centimetres (or 19.6850393700787 inches or 1.64 feet) from the exhaust outlet.

The Edmonton Police Services will charge violators at three (3) benchmark noise levels:
1. Violators in excess of 92 db(A) at idle for all motorcycles; or
2. Violators in excess of 96 db(A) at 2000 rpm for motorcycles having less than 3 cylinders; or more than 4 cylinders; and/or
3. Violators in excess of 100 db(A) at 5000 rpm for motorcycles with 3 or 4 cylinders

It was moved/seconded and carried that Bylaw 15442 be read a first time, second time and a third time. After the third reading was completed and the motion carred, which gave life to this new by-law;  Ward 6 Councillor Dave Thiele moved the following motion and Ward 6 Councillor Amarjeet Sohi seconded the motion:

Motor Vehicles Noise Control

That Administration (Planning & Development), in cooperation with the Edmonton Police Commission, provide a report (due by September 15, 2010) to Council outlining:

* a mechanism to control excessive noise of motor vehicles

* time frames to implement proper testing for noise level violations of all motor vehicles

* steps required to amend the Community Standards Bylaw to provide Edmonton Police Service with more tools for enforcement of noise level violations of all motor vehicles.

This motion was passed by the majority of the City Councillors present at the meeting.

This means that City Councillors are looking at expanding the scope of the proposed bylaw to capture “motor vehicles” in the excessive noise bylaw, versus only “motorcycles”.

What Bylaw 14600 looked like, before the June 9, 2010 amendment:

City of Edmonton

Bylaw 14600

Community Standards Bylaw


(consolidated on February 13, 2008)

Part III – Noise Control

definitions1)           In this Part:

i)          “dB(A)” means the sound pressure measured in decibels using the “A” weighted scale of a sound level meter set to fast response;

ii)         “decibel” means a unit for expressing the relative intensity of sounds on a scale from zero for the average least perceptible sound to approximately 130 for the average pain level;

iii)         “holiday” means January 1st, Alberta Family Day, Good Friday, Victoria Day, July 1st, the first Monday in August, Labour Day, Thanksgiving Day, November 11th, and December 25th of every year;

iv)        “noise” means any sound that is reasonably likely to disturb the peace of others;

v)         “sound level meter” means a device used to measure sound pressure which meets the International Electro-Technical Commission Standard No. 123 or the British Standard No. 3539 Part l, or the U.S.A. Standard S1.4-1961.

prohibited noise1)      a)  A person shall not cause or permit any noise that disturbs the peace of another individual.

b)  A person shall not cause or permit property they own or occupy to be used so that noise from the property disturbs the peace of any other individual.

c)  A person may be found guilty of a contravention of this section whether or not the decibel level:

i)          is measured; or

ii)         if measured, exceeds any limit prescribed by this bylaw.

criteria2)           In determining if a sound is reasonably likely to disturb the peace of others the following criteria may be considered:

i)          type, volume, and duration of the sound;

ii)         time of day and day of week;

iii)         nature and use of the surrounding area;

iv)        decibel level, if measured; and

v)         any other relevant factor.

DAYTIME DECIBEL LIMIT – RESIDENTIAL1)      a)  A person shall not cause or permit any sound exceeding 65 dB(A), as measured at the property line of a property zoned for residential use, between 7 a.m. and 10 p.m.

b)  A person shall not cause or permit property they own or occupy to be used so that any sound coming from the property exceeds 65 dB(A), as measured at the property line of a property zoned for residential use, between 7 a.m. and 10 p.m.

c)  This section does not apply to sounds up to:

i)          70 dB(A) lasting a total period of time not exceeding two hours in any one day;

ii)         75 dB(A) lasting a total period of time not exceeding one hour in any one day;

iii)         80 dB(A) lasting a total period of time not exceeding 30 minutes in any one day; or

iv)        85 dB(A) lasting a total period of time not exceeding 15 minutes in any one day.

OVERNIGHT DECIBEL LEVEL – RESIDENTIAL2)      a)  A person shall not cause or permit any sound exceeding 50 dB(A), as measured at the property line of a property zoned for use as residential, before 7 a.m. or after 10 p.m.

b)  A person shall not cause or permit property they own or occupy to be used so that any sound coming from the property exceeds 50 dB(A), as measured at the property line of a property zoned for use as residential, before 7 a.m. or after 10 p.m.

DAYTIME DECIBEL LIMIT – NON-RESIDENTIAL3)      a)  A person shall not cause or permit any sound exceeding 75 dB(A), as measured at the property line of a property zoned for use other than residential, between 7 a.m. and 10 p.m.

b)  A person shall not cause or permit property they own or occupy to be used so that any sound coming from the property exceeds 75 dB(A), as measured at the property line of a property zoned for use other than residential between 7 a.m. and 10 p.m.

c)  This section does not apply to sounds up to:

i)          80 dB(A) lasting for a total period of time not exceeding two hours in any one day; or

ii)         85 dB(A) lasting for a total period of time not exceeding one hour in any one day.

OVERNIGHT DECIBEL LEVEL – NON-RESIDENTIAL4)      a)  A person shall not cause or permit any sound exceeding 60 dB(A), as measured at the property line of a property zoned for use other than residential, before 7 a.m. or after 10 p.m.

b)  A person shall not cause or permit property they own or occupy to be used so that any sound coming from the property exceeds 60 dB(A), as measured at the property line of a property zoned for use other than residential, before 7 a.m. or after 10 p.m

motor vehicles5)      a)  If a motor vehicle is the cause of any sound that contravenes a provision of this bylaw the owner of that motor vehicle is liable for the contravention.

b)  Subsection (1) does not apply if the owner, on a balance of probabilities, satisfies the court that, at the time the motor vehicle was involved in the contravention, the owner was not present in the motor vehicle and no other person was operating the motor vehicle with the owner’s express or implied consent.

After the June 9, 2010 Edmonton City Council meeting, this is the amendment to Bylaw 14600:

THE CITY OF EDMONTON

BYLAW 15442

COMMUNITY STANDARDS BYLAW AMENDMENT NO. 2

Edmonton City Council enacts:
1. Bylaw 14600, the Community Standards Bylaw, is amended by this bylaw.
2. Section 13 is amended by adding after clause (c):
(c.1) “motor cycle” has the same meaning as in the Traffic Safety Act, as amended;
3. Section 13 is amended by deleting clause (e) and inserting:
(e) “sound level meter” means a device used to measure sound pressure which meets the American National Standards Institute S1.4-1983(R 2006), or the International Electro-Technical Standard No.123, or the British Standard no. 3539 Part 1 or the U.S.A Standard S1.4-1961
4. Part III is amended by adding after section 18:
18.1 A person shall not operate a motor cycle that is capable of:
a) emitting any sound exceeding 92 db(A), as measured at 50 centimetres from the exhaust outlet, while the engine is at idle; or
b) emitting any sound exceeding 96 db(A), as measured at 50 centimetres from the exhaust outlet, while the engine is at any speed greater than idle.

On April 29, 2010 Edmonton Police Chief Mike Boyd signed off the following report presented to Edmonton’s Police Services Board:

The Edmonton Police Services will charge violators at three (3) benchmark noise levels:
1. Violators in excess of 92 db(A) at idle for all motorcycles; or
2. Violators in excess of 96 db(A) at 2000 rpm for motorcycles having less than 3 cylinders; or more than 4 cylinders; and/or
3. Violators in excess of 100 db(A) at 5000 rpm for motorcycles with 3 or 4 cylinders

Policy is being developed to govern enforcement procedures and standards.

Total cost of equipment will be approximately $24,000.00 to equip the Service with eight (8) noise meter kits.

A public awareness and education program will cost approximately $15,000.00.

The 2010 Excessive Noise Program will commence May 1, 2010 enhanced with the new bylaw as soon as it is enacted.

This is the information that was reviewed by City of Edmonton City Councillors prior to June 9, 2010’s vote on changing the noise bylaw to restrict motorcycles within the City limits:

Bylaw 15442
To Amend the Community
Standards Bylaw 14600

Readings
Bylaw 15442 is ready for three readings. This Bylaw is authorized under the Municipal Government Act. A majority
vote of City Council on all three readings is required for passage.
If Council wishes to give three readings during a single meeting, then prior to moving third reading, Council must
unanimously agree “That Bylaw 15442 be considered for third reading.”

Previous Council/Committee Action
At the March 1, 2010, Community Services Committee meeting, the following motion was passed:

That Administration provide a report outlining:
• a review of provincial legislation and relevant municipal bylaws to ensure aftermarket excessive noise alterations can beregulated and are enforceable.

• the steps required to amend the Community Standards Bylaw to allow the Edmonton Police Service more tools for enforcing violations of excessive noise.

Report

• In 2008, Administration provided an information report to Committee on the current state of federal, provincial and municipal noise regulations. A 2010 review found no significant change or improvement to the regulation foraftermarket excessive noise alteration. (See Attachment 3.) With no recent legislative enhancements or new tools forenforcement purposes, the next step is for Council to consider this report’s proposed amendment to the Community Standards Bylaw.

• While the motion did not request a bylaw amendment, the protocol enforcement work already completed by the Edmonton Police Service and start of the summer cruising season supported the amendment coming forward at this time.

• Vehicles equipped with aftermarket systems that do not conform to the laws are major contributors to the problem ofexcessive noise. Excessive vehicle noise on city roadways is identified as a community disorder issue. Complaints ofthis nature centre on noncommercial vehicles, in particular aftermarket motorcycle exhaust systems. The offendingequipment tends to be straight pipes and drag pipes on cruiser type bikes, unbaffled systems on chopper style bikes, or racing or performance pipes on sport bikes.• The Edmonton Police Service has responded to this issue with both short and long-term action plans. Short-term plans saw stepped up enforcement in 2009, but existing provincial legislation was found to be inadequate to effectively deal with excessive noise. The long-term plan was to work with Alberta Transportation to develop legislation to identify acceptable noise levels from vehicles and a method of measuring those levels.

• Alberta Transportation reports that it is leading a national working group of government, law enforcement and industry representatives developing ways to effectively and fairly enforce excessive motorcycle noise. When the national group finishes its work, the Province will start the policy change process.

• Unfortunately, there is still significant work to be done to define the standards and testing protocols for dynamic vehicle noise testing by the working group. Once the noise testing standards are developed and provincial policy completed, there will be an extensive public consultation process required, among other factors.

• Although the development process has started, it will be some time before new provincial legislation is proclaimed and enforcement rolled out. As a consequence, a bylaw contingency plan was developed to fill the gap.

• The proposed amendment to the Community Standards Bylaw 14600 is viewed as an effective enforcement tool to deal with excessively loud motorcycles. The bylaw amendment broadens the current measuring standards for sound level meter testing and establishes the offence that no person shall operate a motorcycle that is capable of emitting sound exceeding 92 decibels while at idle, or 96 decibels while the engine speed is greater than idle. The proposed bylaw amendment carries a fine of $250.

• The identified equipment and decibel levels are consistent with the proposed standards developed by the Society of
Automotive Engineers called the ‘SAE J2825’. The SAE J2825 has been proposed as the standard for any national,
provincial or municipal legislation to deal with excessive motorcycle noise in Canada through the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators and the Motorcycle and Moped Industry Council of Canada.

• Edmonton Police Service indicate they are in the process of developing the necessary policy to govern enforcement
procedures and standards. If the Community Standards Bylaw is amended by Council, a public awareness and education program will follow.

• Corporate Services Department, Law Branch, worked with police service representatives to draft the proposed bylaw amendment.

• On May 20, 2010, the Edmonton Police Commission approved the recommendation to request City Council amend the Community Standards Bylaw.

Budget/Financial Implications
• Costs associated with the purchase of noise meter equipment and the implementation of a public awareness and education campaign will be accommodated under existing Edmonton Police Service budget.

There are at least 13,000 Edmontonians that should not be happy with this new bylaw. At least one Edmontonian, Ms. Liane Langlois (who works for a small IT company and rides a Triumph Speedmaster) plans on opposing this recent bylaw aimed at motorcycle enthusiasts. She is organizing a petition and she will have to sign up 10% of Edmonton’s population in order for it to be legally binding — roughly 79,000 people.

“I’m supposed to trust these people to make the best decisions when they’re clearly advocating for police to discriminate and harass against motorcycle riders?” she said. “I’m looking to get the bylaw repealed. For me, [the bylaw] has got to be all-encompassing or nothing.

Edmonton is the first city to pass this type of bylaw and as a result, other municipalities that want to pass similar or identical legislation (Vancouver to Winnipeg, Regina and all the way to the Maritimes) are watching what happens with regard to Edmonton’s latest bylaw amendment.

See the following articles Edmonton Journal, Calgary Herald, Dose.ca

One can’t help wonder if the reason that almost all the Edmonton City Councillors (A. Sohi, B. Anderson, B. Henderson, D. Iveson, E. Gibbons, J. Batty, K. Krushell, K. Leibovici, L. Sloan, R. Hayter, T. Caterina) jumped so quickly on the bandwagon and passed this bylaw (this bylaw passed by a vote of 11 to 1) is related to the following upcoming event in October, 2010:

Edmonton Elections

Election Day

The City of Edmonton conducts elections every three years, on the third Monday in October, between the hours of 9am and 8pm. The next municipal and school trustee elections are being held on Monday, October 18, 2010.

Update: August 14, 2010: Waterloo Region motorcycle safety blitz results in more than 50 charges (see this story in the TheRecord.com):

Record staff
WATERLOO REGION – A police safety sweep resulted in more than 50 charges being laid against motorcycle drivers Friday in the Trussler Road area of Wilmot.

Members of the Waterloo Regional Police force were out from 7:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. conducting a sweep on motorcycyle equipment which resulted in 56 charges being laid and 19 motorcycles being taken out of service as a result of major equipment defects.

Charges included improper helmets, handlebars exceeding 380 millimetres high, defective tires, improper mufflers, no headlights and driving in contravention of license conditions. Police said around 400 motorcycles were inspected over the four-hour safety blitz.

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87 comments

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  3. The reading should be at least that distance perpendicular to the exhaust outlet, if the reading is taken any other way it can be considered a bias reading. A good example would be to have someone talk to you while facing away from you… they don’t sound as loud.

  4. There will certainly constantly be nay-sayers yet I quite like the appearances of these bikes and under some situations I might see myself having the 750. They hit a market niche that isn’t really the 1000-miles-a-day-on-the-superslab kind of cyclist however IS the young, urban cyclist. If correctly valued they should flourish.

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  8. Mytie – you fail to see the point. The fight isn’t against have a noise bylaw put in place, it is against it targeting one group of people. There are plenty of trucks and cars with after market exhaust that are just as loud, if not louder than most bikes out there. Why are they free to commit the same infraction without receiving the same penalty? The law should apply to all equally as per the Charter of Rights & Freedoms.

    For all updated information, including the statistics from 2009, 2010 and 2011 on the actual number of complaints and tickets issued and fought, please visit our new website at http://www.modeledmonton.com. We are working on finding out the amount of tax dollars that have been wasted on this program and will post that once we get answers. The sheer number of tickets that have been thrown out or quashed should be a huge indication of how much of a failure this bylaw has become on just the technical side of it.

    If anyone requires any further clarification to any posts on our site, please email us at [email protected].

    This fight will continue until the bylaw is expanded to include all forms of vehicles or it has been repealed.

  9. What would the urban environment be like if all cars had no mufflers. I am sick of hearing a hundred bikes a day go past my place and ripping the silence.

    Maybe just to even the playing field we should just scrap mufflers all together. Cars, trucks, air brakes who gives a dam bring them on to.

    morons.

  10. Hi Peter,

    I advised of the update on the Stuart Young appeal in my July 5 post just above. But to recap, the appeal was set to take place on June 30, 2011. We hired a very reputable lawyer and were successful in collecting enough funds from within the motorcycle community to pay for the legal fees. We had asked our community for assistance because we had such a strong case and a win would mean precedence for all tickets in court.

    Unfortunately, with only 2 days to go, the City withdrew their appeal. They felt they couldn’t win. So instead of risking it and giving us the precedence, they ran. Strategic? Sure. But I would call it more cowardly than anything. They made such a big deal about making an example out of Stuart Young, yet they couldn’t give him his fair day in court.

    Given our success rate in the courts, what they did confirm through the withdrawal of their appeal was that we have a solid defense.

    I would like to point out that in the case of Calgary, at least they are testing out technology that does not discriminate against the type of vehicle making noise. Calgary is currently testing the Noise Snare, ironically developed by an engineer from Edmonton. This technology is fair across the board as it is a sort of “photo radar” version for measuring dba levels – meaning it isn’t the road side test that the EPS are using and therefore not arbitrarily pulling over only motorcycles. The other difference is the City of Calgary is actually asking for feedback from their constituents. The City of Edmonton did not show that same respect to their constituents.

    I hope that helps.

  11. Hi all. Thanks for the posts; there is a lot of great information. I am writing from Calgary, Alberta, where our city council has been seeking public input into the issue of “vehicle” noise (read “motorcycle” noise as everyone knows what is being targeted). It’s likely Calgarians support a bylaw similar to that of Edmonton’s noise bylaw based on news reports. However, it is clear that there are numerous flaws in using handheld decibel meters, so enforcement seems impractical.

    I was not aware of the city of Edmonton’s appeal in the Stuart Young case. I know courts take time (and fighting motorcycle noise tickets is a great use of taxpayer funds), but has a decision been passed down? Has the city’s appeal been successful?

  12. I think the double standard the city has regarding bikes is appauling since the city themselves sanctions events that are a 100 times louder than any loud bike and for a longer extent of time. Any concert, football game and especially INDY at the airport. These locations for city approved events that you can hear at least 60 blocks away that exceed decible ratings bikes are to comply with is OK? Come on, this is nothing but a smoke screen to harass and profile all that ride motorcycles as trouble and feed the perverbial machine with more money by issuing fines. Its harassment and nothing more people,,, wake up. How about the city itself give out tickets or shut down their events when people call in to complain about their own sanctioned events that I too find more annoying than a 3 second drive by of a bike. I don’t want to have to hear Indy cars, concerts or football announcers for hours and with Indy,,,its days people.

    Note to the motorcycle riders that whine and complain about your tickets. How many of you have taken the time to actually do anything proactive to help with the cause to have this bylaw changed??? Most of you would rather just sit back, drink and go party than actually take any of your precious time to make a change and protest the cities sanctioned events as a double standard to make any difference. Only time its an issue with you people is when you get pulled over and get a ticket. Then its a big deal,, well suck it up if your not willing to help any cause to change it and good on ya since there are alot that really enjoy rapping on their exhaust to purposly create an annoyance. The ones that do that just make it impossible for those of us that enjoy ridding normally from being harrassed as well. Thanks for your input to make things worse for all of us. Next time you get a ticket think about how little you did to make a difference by either supporting those that fight this bylaw or your own stupidity to get it.

    Unite and make a difference or quit your whining.

  13. Richard,

    Thank you for acknowledging the fact that you had lumped us all into the same category. I would like to further clarify that out of the 13,000 registered motorcycles in Edmonton, you have the percentage on who the problem riders are backwards. The very high majority are respectful of their environments. It is a tiny minority that cause the problem and are oblivious to the harm they are causing our community.

    Just so you are aware, I have been approached by gross offenders who have received tickets under this bylaw for help. I have refused to help them on the premise that they are the exact reason we are in this position and I feel they should pay for it. If that doesn’t show I support the reasoning behind the bylaw then I don’t know what does.

    With that said, Barry’s story is far to familiar. I have copies of many letters of complaint being submitted to the EPS, the Police Commission and City Council about how we are being treated on the streets. Apparently it seems to be falling on deaf ears. I am hoping that the Professional Standards Branch at the EPS step up and get this sorted out. There is no reason for profiling, harassing and threatening citizens of this city over something as ridiculous as asking a simple question about a noise bylaw test. I don’t see other groups being targeted the way we have been except perhaps when it comes to a race or religion aspect.

    Discrimination and profiling is unacceptable in our society. This is exactly the reason the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was written. All our community has ever asked for was to be treated equally under the eyes of the laws. When there is technology that exists to make that happen, it is unacceptable to continue to discriminate against one group while allowing others to commit the exact same infraction without the same penalty.

    Thank you for understanding and thank you for the well wishes. I hope to have this sorted out someday so I can just go back to enjoying my passion. After all, I am happiest when I am out on my motorcycle.

  14. @Richard the base line premise for this by law is good , problem with it all is just the profiling they do , on a ride we did yesterday we passed a radar trap , big problem tho was the only people pulled over were bikes , the EPS had a gun out and everything and we WITNESSED a car pass a bike a bike the EPS run out and let the car go by EVEN THO HE TURNED ON HIS SIGNAL THINKING HE WAS CAUGHT and pulled the bike in along side of the only other vehicles pulled in , 2 other bikers. They “say” they are only going after the gross offenders which is a total out and out lie , yes a lie. They target EVERY bike NO MATTER WHAT! We passed Sgt Theuser the EPS officer that is behind the by law while he had a kid pulled over , when we pulled up to the lights 3 blocks away and joked about how mad the cop looked only to have flashing lights come on right behind we were shocked , and Sgt Theuser walked to the bike and tell us to pull to the side after we go through the lights , and after asking more than once what I did , he said for a noise check. We repeatedly express our opinion on the profiling and waste of time while people watched it all unfold , he told us we passed , as I KNEW we would because I was checked and told him this repeatedly! He told us that there were a number of complaints , when I asked WHICH BUSINESS COMPLAINED? He wouldn’t answer because he knew 98% of them were closed. You see we were riding through a business area NO HOMES! Hence NO ONE to complain , So as stated a couple times it is a good by law , FOR EVERYONE!! for now it is only profiling motorcycles tho , and yes there are gross , gross offenders out there getting us all painted with the same brush , unfortunate? yes , and this is the reason for the fight back. Not because we feel “picked on” because we feel profiled. As Liane said also when our rights get picked away slowly we fight back more The lady Gov Rep that spear headed this by law also tried having a new by law for Police , Fire , and Ambulances to have quieter sirens during late night hrs. The biggest statement that sticks out in my mind right now , Rickard: “Discriminatory? Perhaps. But too harsh? Not in the least.” Well said except for the “Discriminatory? Perhaps.” You said that like that is tolerated in today’s world , when we KNOW socially it is so NOT!
    Try and enjoy your summer without discrimination ;)

  15. Liane,

    Your comments are noted. I really respect your knowledge on this matter. You are obviously conscientious and sensitive to respect for others. I confess to have generalised, which is contrary to my principles. Please accept my apologies. This said; allow me to suggest that you are an exception. A large number of motorcyclists are completely oblivious to the issues of respect you support. The by-law is because of, and aimed at, them. Like so many cases where new legislation is enacted, it is to send a message to those who couldn’t care less about the rights of others. Their enjoyment is all they are concerned about. And there are many such persons out there. Unfortunately, as in many cases where legislation is enacted, abuses occur and many persons such as yourself are the first victims (and militants). Your efforts may bring about a change in enforcement procedure and this is laudable. But I sense that you support the ultimate principles and objectives set by this legislation. Is this true for all other opponents? Or is it simply a way to for them to rationalize not having to change their bikes or their understanding of the issues? I can’t help but make a parallel with other social issues such as smoking, pollution, use of pesticides in urban areas, reduced speed in urban areas, and alcohol/driving. These have all had their defenders who understand nothing unless it is supported by stiff sanction.

    Hopefully, the publicity achieved by this debate will sensitize a larger number of motorcyclists (and motorists) to this trend. Thus allowing those such as yourself to go on with the joys of life.

    On this, I wish you well Liane.

    Salut!

    Richard

  16. @Richard, I appreciate your point of view and you had me until the last paragraph. How do you know why people buy the type of bike they buy? Nothing like boxing people into a stereotype or anything. For the record though I own one of the quietest bikes on the street which makes my point that the issue has nothing to do with the noise. When you see your rights being chipped away at little by little you should stand up. Once they are done with the motorcyclists, they will move on to the next group.

    I agree that there are vehicles of all kinds that need to be reprimanded for excessive noise. In fact, there are provincial laws that govern that already which include ALL forms of vehicles, including motorcycles. Unfortunately the police do not enforce it. This law specifically targets one group of people with a “scientific” test to prove decibel levels while others are free to commit the same infraction without receiving the same penalty. Just so you are aware, there is technology available that has been tested and proven to work that will not discriminate against the type of vehicle. This technology is currently being demonstrated in Calgary and I applaud them for going at this issue the right way.

    The other major flaw in this bylaw is that the test is not being conducted correctly. There is a standard written for the road side test on motorcycle noise and if done correctly, in a controlled environment, the test could be effective. This however is not the case. This is the reason we have had so many tickets thrown out in court. You cannot pick and choose what procedures you are going to ignore as all those procedures were put in there for a reason in the first place…especially if they state the word “must”. That little bit of information has been pointed out by the courts.

    Speaking of court, the appeal the City filed against Stuart Young was to be in court on June 30. 2 days before court, the City withdrew their appeal. They stated they didn’t have enough evidence to go through with it. I feel they took the cowardly way out as we had a solid case that would have solidified our precedence in the courts. Tactical move by the City for sure but definitely a cowardly move. They were the ones that insisted they need to make an example out of Stuart Young and instead, by withdrawing their appeal, they have basically proven our defense that has won countless times in court is in fact valid.

    Until this bylaw is equal across all forms of private vehicles, it will continue to waste tax dollars on the streets with the police conducting improper tests right through the courts and the cost for the City Prosecutors office to handle it not to mention time and a half for the police. All for a $250 ticket. What a waste of tens of thousands of dollars so far and still climbing. Think of what that money could be used for.

    @Brad – that is a very well put point. You will be pulled over and detained continuously regardless of how many times you have passed the test, especially if you are on a Harley regardless if it might have stock pipes. But remember, EPS keeps saying they are only going after the gross offenders. I guess that is why people keep getting pulled over even though they clearly pass and EPS are now approaching people parked in a parking lot when their bikes aren’t even running. It’s getting worse but also giving us even more to tell the courts and producing a few letters of complaint of conduct by the EPS.

  17. I hate to be a party basher, but I agree with the by-law. Yes it should be broadened to cover all vehicles including trucks, cars and snowmobiles. Discriminatory? Perhaps. But too harsh? Not in the least. Noise pollution is the next great social battle. Like smoking in public places So get ready y’all cause it is going to eventually come. Either now or latter, and even harder I suspect. Why? because excessive noise is unhealthy and intrusive to the rights of others (lets call them the “silent majority”) and who want more peace and quiet in their lives.

    It is a bit like second hand smoke: it affects aoffends the non-smokers. It will probably take a few years before noise makers are educated to the sad reality that their freedom ends where the others begins. Noisy vehicles invariably and indifferently cross that line. It will take a few years for you all to accept that noisy vehicles are a dying breed. Like Hummers, they are incompatible with urban coexistence.

    Furthermore, excessive noisy vehicles have no purpose other than to feed your egos. Face it: its a human to want to stand out. Take away the trade-marked sound of a Harley and no-one will buy it. Because it is not just about being sure everyone sees you, but also that they must hear you, right?! My suggestion to all of you who love your noisy toys is to sell them while you still can, and with the money you save get an electric bike. I promise that many people will be impressed by such a courageous move. A great ego booster I assure you! You may then begin to notice how aggravating and invasive other vehicles are, and how oblivious their owners are. Then, you might be tempted to write a letter much like this one…i hope!!! …Cheers!

  18. I had my bike tested last fall and passed the test my issue is that the cops don’t keep any records. They can and will keep retesting people. If a bike passes the test it should be on record so the next time I get pulled over for a noise check they should run my registration and then see that I passed and let me go.

  19. We are currently looking for donations to help pay for the legal fees in regards to the upcoming appeal the City filed against Stuart Young. It should be noted that Scott McAnsh, City Prosecutor, has been quoted stating that it will be near impossible to prosecute any tickets going forward if the higher court agrees with the Commissioner on the Stuart Young case.

    We feel we have an excellent shot at winning this appeal. If that is the case, we are one step closer to getting rid of the discriminatory bylaw.

    If this noise bylaw effects you, you need to get behind us in this appeal. Donations can be left at:

    Hi-Per Cycle – 14340 – 115 Avenue
    Time Machine – 9912 72 Avenue
    Welch’s Motorcycle Repair – 6739 76 Avenue
    Bad Ass Customs – #412, 8170-50th Street
    Echo Cycle – 15311 118 Avenue Northwest

    Please note that any monies remaining will be donated to Edmonton based charities.

    Thank you in advance.

  20. Jeff,

    I believe the appeal the City filed on the Stuart Young decision is this week. With that said, when the higher court agrees with the Commissioner and the City loses their appeal, the City Prosecutor Scott McAnsh has all but said they are right screwed. His exact words are along the lines of “it will make this virtually impossible to prosecute”.

    With that said, you have a whole support group behind you who have put in a ton of effort in to fight this and have successfully given our people defenses that have worked in court. You just have to get in touch with me. I can provide you with what the testing procedures are so if you are pulled over, you can gather the proper evidence to fight your ticket while they conduct the test.

    http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=2398058366

    Or you can find me on http://www.beltdrivebetty.com. In the forums there is a thread regarding the noise bylaw of which I respond to and update frequently. :)

  21. I service rig welders, and the guys using them generally have big Diesel trucks with monster turbos. The turbo squeel as they speed away is deafening, but I’ve never heard of anyone getting stopped for it. Then you have the engine retarters on the semi’s. Prohibited in the citys don’t ya no, guess what, the truckers shift with them, so never going to turn them off. Do they get nailed, nope. You’ve got rusty boom thumper stereo cars, the drag open header cars, and the open header jet boats on the river.

    As for the bike noise law, there is nothing I can add on to by $40K bike that will make it quiet. Didn’t have a stock exhaust, as its not a stock bike. Sure it has a 2 cylinder 114CI engine, but it revs to 7500 rpm. Somewhat more than your average Harley, and less than a race bike. So what category would it fall into. Yes its a chrome show bike. Yes I was told by the coppers at the bike show, I won’t be hassled unless I’m doing something stupid, but then again with the roving checks, I’ll get nailed constantly, and of course be in court lots as well. Never attend the charities, and in all likelyhood be forced to park it.

  22. Just a small update – we are at 10 tickets thrown out, 2 have stood and 3 are pending a decision. The City has filed an appeal on the Stuart Young decision which will happen later this month. The City’s argument is that the Commissioner made a judgement error when he factored in the SAE J2825 into his decision. The mayor feels since the J2825 is not mentioned in the bylaw, breaking the protocals of that method of testing has no affect on the bylaw. All the City needs to prove to write a ticket is that the bike is over the set levels at a distance of 50cm. So why spend that much money on the equipment…most people have an app for decibel readers on their smart phones. By that logic, that really is all you need. No science behind it required at all! However, what they fail to realize is if we discredit how the decibel number was achieved, then that number no longer exists and therefore the ticket is null and void. Unfortunately they City doesn’t see that this is a HUGE waste of tax dollars.

    There are people willing to help you fight this specific ticket. We get new information each and every day which adds to our defense. The transcripts from the Stuart Young decision are up on the facebook group along with many other stories from others.

    http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=2398058366

    Lastly, Shaw television here in Edmonton did an hour long show this morning with the first half hour guests being Cst. Eric Theuser and Councilor Tony Caterina (the only one left that voted against this bylaw). I was fortunate to be the only guest of the second half hour considering I watched the first half, took notes and was able to refute certain things presented one of the guests. It was a satisfying moment. I would like to send a big thank you out to Tony Caterina for standing by his initial decision that was widely misrepresented from the start. He voted with Dave Thiele and has yet to waiver on that decision. He presented his views with dignity and grace.

    Did you know that apparently we, the motorcycle community of Edmonton, asked for this law 6 years ago? I would be interested in seeing the documentation behind that. Pretty sure it can’t be produced because that is one of the biggest lies I have heard yet.

  23. Thank you! This one victory isn’t the end though. Unless the province sees this for what it is, we will continue to send people to court prepared with a solid defense. I will continue to do what I can to get this bylaw repealed until it can be equally applied to all forms of non-commercial vehicles.

  24. Hi Liane:
    It sounds like Stuart Young needed some assistance with his case and that upon receiving it, he was able to successfully argue his case – in which a decision was handed down on February 17, 2011.

    Thank you for helping fellow bikers in this struggle and for offering assistance in the future.

    Remember to always http://fightyourtickets.ca

  25. Unless you live under a rock, you likely have heard about the HUGE step forward we took in this fight with a precedent setting win on February 17, 2011. To have crossed paths with Stuart Young right before his trial turned out to be magic. I gave him what he needed and he took it to town WITHOUT a lawyer. Presenting a 3 prong defense, the Commissioner stated at the end of the trial that he needed some time to review all the evidence. 3 weeks later, on February 17, he dismissed Stuart’s ticket for not only the three reasons he stated in his defense but a total of 6. He further stated that he could have continued but these 6 clauses would be the bare minimum the Crown would have to prove. What does it all revolve around:

    1. when was the ambient noise measured as per when the test was conducted?
    2. when was the wind velocity reading taken and was there an unapproved windscreen used on the microphone?
    3. where was the test performed or were there any buildings, curbs or parked cars inside the 2.5 meter radius?
    4. were there other people aside from the rider and the tester in the 2.5 meter radius?
    5. was the motorcycle on a side stand when the above idle test was done? the rider must be astride the motorcycle holding it vertical OR on a center stand for above idle tests.
    6. was the 5% margin of error factored in to your reading? The calibration certificate clearly states that the machines are calibrated to 95% accuracy and therefore, the 5% must be taken into affect when the reading is done.

    With that said, knowledge is power and our community has certainly come together. I feel that we have another “speed on green” issue that the Province needs to take a look at. I have respectfully requested they do so.

    If you have a ticket and want some help in your fight, please join my facebook group and we will all do what we can to get you a win as well.

    http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=2398058366

    As Rob Berg on K97 put it, power to the people! :)

  26. all i have to say is if u want peace and quit move the f@##$ out of the city what the hell is wrong with u people a city is a noisey bussling place please please move to the country and let me enjoy my noisey city just like its meant to be ye ha mofos

  27. Chas – that is all I am asking for…to have everyone held to the same standards as the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was written to accomplish. As for the rest of your points, you hit the nail on the head. A few idiots ruined it for everyone.

    Ray – unfortunately those tourists just won’t come here. I have been told flyers are handed out in nearby towns and cities to ensure everyone knows Edmonton is not motorcycle friendly. I wish I could get my hands on one. Sad how our city is recognized now as a city that allows discriminatory bylaws. What a great thing to be known for. The only saving grace is that there are tickets that have been thrown out.

    Bike show is around the corner. I hope that Acting Sgt Theuser can back up his program and be in attendance in the police booth. With that said, to my community, be respectful. Please do not lower yourself to the standards that Acting Sgt Theuser has demonstrated on and off this forum.

  28. What about all of the tourists that come from all over Canada and the states that ride motorcycles are they ever going to come back after getting hit with a $ 250.00 fine because their motorcycle is to loud for Edmonton and what about the reputation of Edmonton, what about all the car shows etc?

  29. What can I say? As a snowmobiler I know trails get closed because of loud pipes. People have to put cans on thier sleds that hurt your ears. I have added an after market exhaust to my sled and my bike as well. Not extreemely loud but louder then stock. Same reason both times the original failed to be a muffler anymore. The sled the aftermarket was cheaper, the bike aftermarket is all I can get.

    So as I sit inside my house windows closed I hear sleds go by with loud cans on them that drown out my TV. In the summer I hear Harley’s or wannabe Harleys go by with pipes so loud they rattle my windows and drown out my TV. I will have to say that there are way more loud bikes as an average of the whole then there are sleds. Its that loud pipes save lives thing carried to the extreeme.

    Not that I ever believed in the loud pipes theory to begin with. I had a old Honda Chopper with very loud pipes on it and had more people try to kill me then any other bike I owned. Between left turning cages and idiots pulling out right in front of me always with the same response. I didn’t see you. Pipes go in the wrong direction for them to hear you. Plus now everyone has air so their windows are up and tunes are cranked.

    I have no real objection to the noise during the day as I’ve made my share (cutting, welding, building stuff and waking my night shift working neighbor up at noon, our little deal we made) but at 2:00 or 3:00am the bikes wake me out of my sleep as they twist the throttle and red line through the gears from corner to corner. Sleds are banned from the streets from 11:00pm to 7:00am. Some want them banned totally 24 and 7. This is sled country here and because of that it has not happened yet. But there are those high up that keep pushing it.

    I will bring up one more group, the jacked up off roaders with glass pack mufflers. At 2:00 or 3:00am (I’m thinking the after bar crowd at that time bikes or trucks) as they bury the throttle and try to leave hundred foot strips of rubber at every stop sign they wake me up in the summer and winter.

    Here is the thing about all three of these groups. There are a few obnoxious A$$’s in each one. They can’t take it easy and respect other people. They have to go out of their way to proclaim here I am look at me. Wave the flag in front of the bull and dare it to charge. When the bull has had enough it does charge but blindly at everything that resembles the one who made it mad.

    That is when guys like me get caught up in the mess. I don’t try to make people mad I take it easy all day long and even more so later in the day or if I’m coming home late. But I pay the price for the few just like always. I feel for you that will pay the price because of a few, but running straight pipes and 5 grand full throttle shifts brings this on. Burning 100ft of rubber with you jacked up 4×4 and straight pipes brings this on. Ear splitting cans on sleds brings this on. But do people learn? No not a one!

    Me I think there should be a noise law that covers them all. See here in my town just sleds are picked on. No one cares about the bikes or the trucks or even the loud stereos. Just the sleds! 11:00pm no sleds in town period but loud bikes or trucks can run around all night waking me up. So I see the reason bike riders are upset. Same old B.S. single out a group leave the rest alone. That is how it works here!

  30. Fellow Edmonton Riders,
    My name is Kelvin, I started the petition here in Saskatoon in an attempt to convince our City Council to rething their decision to impliment a bylaw regulating the noise of loud motorcycle pipes. I generated over 2,000 signatures in 3.5 months, I also created a Facebook Support Group pare called Loud Piopes Saves Lives (please check it out).
    As many of you may have heard by now, Saskatoon City Council rejected the decision to impliment the blaw, and chose to hand the report back over to our City Solicitors for them to coe up with a way of incoluding “ALL” vehicles and not just motorcycles.
    FOR ONCE A DECISION WENT OUR WAY.

    Below is a copy & past of a letter a local biker / group gave city council just before they went into the Oct 19th meeting in Saskatoon. I believe the letter presents many good arguments, some of the same arguments I see our friends in Edmonton have also expressed.

    ___________________________________________________________
    ___________________________________________________________

    Below is a “GREAT” letter Council was handed RIGHT BEFORE they apparently went into the Council meeting on Oct 19th before they passed the decision to pass the report back to City Solicitors for further review. This letter was drafted by two members of the LONEWOLVES Riding Club named Greg & The Preacher.
    TIMING WAS PERFECT

    Thanks for your support Preacher, Greg and the remaining members of The Saskatchewan Lonewolves Independant Bikers of Saskatchewan.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    David Adrian (Preacher on Lonewolves site)

    Saskatoon, Sask.

    His Worship the Mayor and Members of City Council,

    I am the owner of the site called Saskatchewan Lonewolves (sklonewolves.com)

    We have 355 members in Sask., and are a World wide organization with membership across Canada, the USA, and abroad.

    The city solicitor is asking council whether to wait until there are federal or provincial standards for all vehicles or act now to set decibel limits for motorcycles.

    I’d like to see the work put into this issue go beyond motorcycles. I understand city council feels provincial or federal legislation will take too long to change their legislation to add decibel levels for all vehicles; however, some feel it is appropriate to create bylaws in the meantime targeting motorcycles because it is possible. I believe this piecemeal attempt is inappropriate.

    Some say loud pipes save lives – if that is your argument, I’d argue louder horns might save lives (I have installed Air Horns on mine). I, along with many of my friends who ride regularly, share the City’s concern of supporting a healthy living environment for our families. I have a family as do my riding friends here with me today. I will tell you, even as a rider, when you think you hear a bike coming, many times, it isn’t a bike. By the nature of the shorter exhaust system, bikes tend to be louder than other vehicles; however, if a person or even a regular biker can’t tell what type of vehicle is producing the noise, why would it possibly matter to those creating the bylaw? I believe people during the summer assume that it is a bike that is creating the noise. Of course sometimes it is but that doesn’t always make it so. After the bylaw is in place, people will just think law enforcement is poor instead of realizing, noise is noise and it doesn’t matter what type of vehicle is producing it and that a lot of the time, it isn’t a motorcycle. Even a seasoned riding police officer in Edmonton has stated, “I’ll be totally honest… I have been fooled by sound of vehicles.There has been times I thought I’d heard what I thought was a motorcycle approaching and it turns out was not, no test was administered.”

    Why should council spend their time on this to produce a questionable result when provincial legislation would be more effective? Is the complaint about noise? Or is it motorcycles in general?

    Of course as you know, Edmonton has recently seen a similar bylaw introduced. Some of the issues being presented are:

    Other noises such as passing motorists (i.e., trucks, stereos close to the testing area) Equipment use and place haphazardly during the testing (50cms from pipe) not allowing proper measurements.Calgary is considering developing a bylaw that will hold all vehicles to decibel level requirements. Calgary Alderman John Mar in the July 5th edition of the Calgary Sun notes that it will not just target motorcycles but excessively loud vehicles. Mar noted the average car normally makes a 70-decibel noise while a bus runs at 80 decibels and then stated: “There’s no vehicle imported to Canada that creates over 90”.

    So, Edmonton has one law and Calgary could have another. We could create a conflicting situation like that between Regina and Saskatoon. If provincial or federal legislation were in place it wouldn’t create the same issues. BC is an example of a province that has provincial legislation in place that restricts noise levels from all vehicles – so it can be done. I believe this decision by council on Motorcycles alone would simply take the pressure off the provincial government thus allowing them to act even slower on the whole issue. Furthermore, after considering Mar’s statement, perhaps legislation regulating aftermarket exhaust modification like straight pipes, could be more effective in reducing noise levels on all vehicles.

    While direction on bylaw development is being requested, there are things that I think you should bring to mind. Motorcycles are not just annoying, noisy vehicles.

    Motorcycles are vehicles that are appropriate for passenger/size ratio. One, maybe two seats on a motorcycle compared to cars, trucks and vans, usually with only one passenger. Larger vehicles use up larger amounts of resources like road space and fuel – motorcycles are a friendlier vehicle in this regard.

    In addition to that, motorcycles light weight means a lower road maintenance repair bill for distance traveled which is beneficial for the tax payer.

    I believe it is a mistake to paint all bikers as bad which has been done for years, simply because we wear leather and ride motorcycles. Motorcyclists gather for fundraiser events – Ride for Dad, (a prostate cancer fund raising event), Bikers against Drunk Driving, Bikers against Child Abuse, Food Banks, Toy runs for kids, only to name a few. I have spoken to numerous people who ride and the general consensus between all bikers is that any city that has such a bylaw in place will be avoided, as no one wants to be ticketed. So all fund raising events that bikers support in the city will be avoided by the majority of the bikers that would otherwise attend and support these functions! Do we really want that for the charities bikers support?

    The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that police can arbitrarily pull over a vehicle to check vehicle documentation, driver’s license, sobriety of the driver and the mechanical fitness of the vehicle. Notice that the Court does not indicate that only motorcycles can be pulled over. Police have the authority to pull over any vehicle. Let us keep that sentiment.

    With these types of issues at hand, I respectfully request that the city approach provincial legislators and call for decibel levels be declared for all vehicles so that everyone is held to the same level of expectations rather than creating an environment where individuals like me feel singled out and brought under greater scrutiny than other drivers. It is possible to create a situation where everyone with a vehicle can be held equally responsible for creating a healthy living environment.

    I simply don’t see a need for such a bylaw targeting only bikers. If it would target all excessive noise then I will support it 100% and so will the biker community. A few people (voters) have complained about the noise to council member Bob Pringle. Thousands of bikers (also voters) have signed petitions against this bylaw because we feel that it is targeting one specific group of people…bikers

    Why not simply have the local law enforcement hand out tickets for excessive noise like they do for speeding, etc., which puts it under Provincial law instead of our city’s bylaws? Is city council prepared to face this issue when election time comes? Because it will be an issue, that I can guarantee after speaking to bikers. Why does city council have to paint all bikers with the same brush? The days of outlaw bikers are long gone, now we are hard working tax payers who have families and vote. Most people see only the bike and the leather, and don’t see the very real person behind the leather. Go after the bad apples making excessive noise through local law enforcement, issuing citations for excessive noise, not just the people riding bikes, because even with straight pipes on a bike the noise can be controlled, it’s usually the nut behind the handlebars that’s the problem, not the bike. If anyone would like to speak to me in person, I will be in attendance at the meeting. Thank you for your consideration in this matter. I do trust you as the leaders of our great city will make the right decision.

    Sincerely,

    David Adrian

    In case you need the reference, the police officer’s comments can be found at: http://fightyourtickets.ca/noise-by-law-motorcycles-edmonton/comment-page-1/#comments

  31. Jesse, I wish you all the best. Those defenses seem solid. I hope you have some pictures or video to back it up because it may come down to their word against yours. Sitck with it and don’t back down. You won’t be alone in the courts as there are quite a few fighting for the same reason.

    Don’t forget to vote on October 18. If you are on facebook, go to the Edmonton Motorcycle Club group. There is a discussion thread with suggestions and discussion about the election. I would also be interested in hearing how your court battle goes.

  32. I just got a ticket…EPS giving these out makes them about 2 pegs above mall cops..Im going to fight it on my court date Nov 25 my defence being:1: Ambient noise measurement note shown to me proir to test 2: Other noises suchs as passing motorists ie (Diesel trucks, stereos from other vehicles etc within 25 feet from test 3: the measurement for the test (50cms from pipe), this cop placed the measuring device haphazardly and the test began. 4: DISCRIMNATION……and i dont give a F$%$ what that cop says, saying that it isnt…Wish me some luck!

  33. AJ, you have such a valid point regarding bad driving habits like texting which driving. I have seen it far to many times and is usually the cause of an accident. Drivers are so distracted with all the DVD players, loud stereos, cell phones, having a bowl of cereal, doing make up, and even reading. Why is the big concern with our “loud pipes”.

    I would like to point out that in a 2 year period, only 8 official complaints on excessive motorcycle noise were filed on over 10,000 registered bikes. I can see why this was such a fast paced issue where it had all three readings in one sitting with little to no knowledge or input from the people who elected this Council.

    The way to fight against this blatant discrimination is twofold:

    1 – fight your ticket in court

    2 – stand up and be heard by voting in the election October 18. I have had many conversations with many candidates for both Ward and Mayor over the past few weeks. I have spoken to candidates in Wards I don’t even live in. I am doing this in an effort to get people out to vote – generate discussion and awareness of this election. We want candidates that have a well-balanced platform that best represents common sense for the average taxpayer and take a stand against discrimination. We can have our petition heard if the right people are voted in.

    We need to be able to have a voice on the issues that effect our city and our tax dollars. Current Council has made it quite clear on several occassions that they don’t care what the people have to say…and it is more than just this issue. So please, on October 18, get out and vote for the restoration of democraocy and vote for change.

  34. I was recently driving in the city when I ended up on a sidewalk due to a young lady texting while driving. she never seen me AT ALL and I was scared on a side walk on my brand new motor cycle, I would like EPS to step in on this crap first prior to handing out tickets for louder exhaust. I am not saying louder exhaust is the resolution to it all, but it would stop a lot of people making the statement that they need loud exhaust to be safe. On a different note, we live in a city, a city generally equals noise, lawnmowers, weed wackers, fire trucks, ambulance and police vehicle sirens, are we going to make them stop too…if you want absolute peace and quiet i have a few places I can recommend, such as acreages and lake lots. Lets not forget we live in a city!!!

  35. Sgt. Theuser, your explanation (27 July) did not answer my question at all. It is a very simple one. Why are motorcycles with more than 2 cylinders permitted to be louder? You are measuring sound level (volume). Why are 2 cylinder bikes restricted to 96db and 3/4 cylider bikes at 100db?

  36. Hi Geoff,

    It looks like you aren’t going to get your questioned answered. Frankly, I would like to know the answer to that as well. If it truly is just a noise thing, the number of cylinders should not matter. Noise is noise after all.

    Sgt. Theuser,

    Even though you have all of the sudden decided to not participate in this discussion anymore, I have to agree with you on one thing, training is very important. It seems that the training for the J2825 test was mediocre. I have not heard one positive story of how the tests are being completed. There are reports of the officers having to have a lot of side conversations between each other when they can’t get the test to work properly. There are concerns with how long it takes to do that test that by the time they ask certain people to start their bikes, they are cold and that will give a completely different and higher reading than if they had performed the test when they first pulled them over. Way more training is obviously required and a result of poor training is going to result in the majority of these tickets being thrown out. What a waste of tax payers money this is turning out to be simply because it wasn’t done right.

    My last point to you, and in your words “please pay very close attention”:

    Discrimination (noun) – treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit. source: dictionary.com

    Charter of Rights & Freedoms 15. (1) – Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination… source: Charter of Rights and Freedoms of Canada

    How is this law not discriminatory based on the above definition and therefore not an infringement on the Charter of Rights & Freedoms?

  37. Sgt. Eric Theuser why don’t you and the rest of the EPS just crash all the bike events ? There are alot of them. Then you could get every criminal ever in Edmonton. Wow, what a badge that would be !!!!!! All those criminals all turning out for a good cause. Sounds like you guys could fill your boots twice over. Then when you guys are done there, you could install red light / speed camera’s on every pole in Edmonton. Whoa how safe would Edmonton be then hey !!!! Job well done. Your the best Sgt. Eric Theuser. Oh then after you get that sorted out then maybe you could actually focus on other problems like violence and theft (My friend had his car stolen and the EPS was too busy for that kinda thing .. damm bikers). Thats just to name 2. I know how busy you are with the real problems in Edmonton (those damm bikers again) so I won’t get your head too full. You still got to get your helmet on.

  38. Why not just target those making a nuisance of themselves by revving their engines and going up and down the same street, like Jasper and Whyte?? Bike, car or Truck?

    I personally don’t ride in the city. Edmonton has some of the worst drivers I have seen any where in Canada, both on bikes and in cars, trucks, etc. And I simply don’t want any part of that. I’m lucky enough to live close to the city limits, and can escape to the highways fairly easily.

    To those who want to live an a quiet neighborhood… the city is far more nosier! Police sirens, ambulances, LRTs, Buses and drunks! Move to the country!

  39. Just an update that the petition was submitted last week and I have received confirmation from the City Clerk advising it has been sent to all on City Council. Our journey of the first part of this fight is now complete. I am not sure what will come of this as Council doesn’t return from summer break until near the end of August. I hope that someone hears us. Mr. Thiele is well aware that the petition has been submitted. I was in conversation with his assistant last week and advised the day it went in that it was there. I feel that being out there, we spread awareness and education on what our City Council can do without input from their constituants. There is a blatant disregard for equality demonstrated here. I encourage our entire community to get out and vote in the upcoming election. Time to clean house, start fresh and hope that the next group sitting on Council has some common sense on all issues including this one.

    Going forward, I encourage anyone who gets a ticket to do what they feel is best for them. Personally, I would fight it, but that is me. There are a few avenues to take but the circumstance on how your ticket was issued will dictate the route you take. Do your research and educate yourselves. Things such as provincial and federal laws supercede City bylaws. Whether you take an angle of discrimination, infringement on our Charter of Rights (15.1) or question the validity of the test itself due to surrounding noise that can affect the readings, make your fight clear, to the point and most importantly valid. Using “loud pipes saves lives” is never going to be successful as a means of defense against a ticket. Find a valid way to do it. Post up ideas if you have them so people have a reference point. The more we educate ourselves, the better.

    Dan – I would be really interested to hear how your fight turns out. If you are on FaceBook, please join my group “Edmonton Motorcycle Club” as we are hoping to gather information and knowledge from everyone on their individual fights in court. Sounds like you could definitely win your case.

    Doug – I agree that a fund would be helpful. Do we need the HOG group or any other group to do that or can we set one up ourselves? I would encourage you to join my FaceBook group as well and update on the cases that your friends are fighting in court. On a side note, I find it sad that you will not be participating in any charity events. This is one of my biggest fears. We contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars to countless charities, some of which are dependent on our money as they are severely underfunded on every level; city, provincial and federal. What will happen to these much needed charities like the Youth Emergency Shelter, the school lunch program and the annual Toy Run if there is no support?

  40. Dan:

    I’m really happy to hear that someone is going to fight this matter in court.

    I would hope that everyone that gets a ticket fights that ticket. If everyone fought the every ticket then the officers would be in court and the cost to process them would out be greater than the reward. The problem is most of the tickets will go to court during the off season.

    I have a few friends that are in the process of fighting their tickets and one of them is a lawyer. I wish them all “Good Luck.”

    I had very good results in fighting photo radar tickets many years back (13 Wins – 2 Losses) but decided that I was wasting too much of my time over a clause that really didn’t matter, most of my win were only due to the crown not providing disclosure or officers not showing up in court. I finally realized that I needed to change my behaviour and quit speeding which is the only true way to beat that ticket.

    I surprised that no one (ie: Harley Owners group, etc) has started a defence fund as I would be more than happy to support that cause at this point.

    My Harley is parked for now and what is really silly is that my cars is louder than the Harley yet I can drive it as I please.

    I will not be doing anymore fundraising for the many good causes out there including the “Motorcycle Ride for Dads” fighting prostate cancer which I raised just over $3000.00 this year.

    I suggest everyone keeps making phone calls or keeps sending letters to your elected officials as it’s is an election year.

    I remind everyone that in B.C. a very small group was able to overturn and get rid of photo radar.

    Sgt. Eric Theuser, I have nothing but respect for you and what you must enforce as it is now the law. How many charges have been laid todate?

    For those still riding, be safe and watch out for all those people still texting.

  41. By the way, I passed the test during the amnesty testing. That test was done properly: at idle 1050rpm 91dp, at 2000rpm 96db.

  42. I got a ticket today. I was almost in involved in a collision due to police officers walking out into the middle of Gateway Blvd. during rush hour to get bikes. They were also pointing their revenue generator guns at cars as well. During rush hour? I was pulled over with 3 other bikes (who i didn’t know). About 10 bikes total tested during my presence. I laughed when a completely stock, single cylinder, 500cc motorcycle with a tail pipe i could plug with my thumb, you could barely hear this bike running, failed a few times by the same cop that tested me, He obviously knew he couldn’t ticket that guy but scratched his head and needed help from his fellow officer. I waited approx 25 minutes for the police to bring us to the actual testing area and waited another 30 minutes for my turn (busy day, i guess). Not allowed to run my motorcycle, the engine was cold by my turn. Most engines idle at a a higher idle when cold and at normal operating temperature idle at actual ‘idle rpm’. My motorcycle idles at 1050rpm. It is not modified in any way, it is a 2010 with less than 4000kms, and not unreasonably loud (compared to some honda civics, but that’s perfectly ok). At test time, my cold engine idled at 1800 rpm and measured 96db (passed 2000rpm test) but the cop said ‘ thats where its idling, fail’. I explained but no cares. I requested some documentation: engine rpm at measurement, actual measurement, etc. Nope. My ticket says: above 92dp at idle. I’ll be in court with all the documentation i can come up with but with my word against his…? I’d like to take the muffler off of my car and drive by the residence of “almost all the Edmonton City Councilors” all night….
    Too bad you can’t ticket real criminals LOL!

  43. As I sit in my house listening to kids go by with the stereo’s that make my windows rattle , I wonder what are the tax dollars really for when “We the people” have no say in anything. I mean come on now I can hear these cars , trucks coming for about 3 blocks before they drive by. Am I supposed to close my windows all because they love loud music and can make it loud enough for me to hear as well?
    Then again I shouldn’t talk huh , I ride a Harley and I am the real bad guy here and we all know it. I mean my 10seconds or so of riding past a business that is closed on a Sun is such a distrubance that I should be pulled over and fined , when honestly no one has really put a noise complaint it on me.
    The law however (which I am NOT against a noise by-law) The law however just gives “someone” , and by that I mean police the right to just set up anywhere and stop any bike rider even if they did nothing wrong and cite them for noise. So in basics they have a complaint ALWAYS in , AND for ALL OTHER noise complaints in Edmonton , IE: Lawn mowers , trucks , cars , road equipment , we still have the same OLD LAW WE HAVE HAD FOR YEARS , but as we have even seen on here , this is NOT a prejudice law by any means. It is NOT signaling out ONE CERTAIN CROUP of TYPE of PEOPLE ,
    “Guarantee of Rights and Freedoms
    1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights
    and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by
    law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.”
    ^^^^ This does NOT even come close to applying here.
    “Fundamental Freedoms
    2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
    (a) freedom of conscience and religion;
    (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom
    of the press and other media of communication;
    (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
    (d) freedom of association.”
    These “freedoms” only apply if you don’t ride a Motor Bike thou. SO your “Association” with bikes and bike riders does NOT apply here. Being a member of an “Association” IE: H.O.G.S or anything of the sort are part of what our “rights and freedoms” mean here.
    BUT I am sure someone will say that we are twisting these “rights and freedoms” to suit our needs OR thats not what they are meant for , OR just anything they need to , so it makes this “Prejudicial” by-law effective and they get all the cash they can grad with it in place.

  44. Sgt. Theuser, we met during the testing day on the southside. I was the individual who was taking all the notes. Perhaps you can explain why there are two different standards to this bylaw regarding the sound levels between two and four cylinder engines. 96db for twins and 100db for all others. If truly all you are measuring is the sound level, why are four cylinder bikes allowed a higher level?

  45. This is for Darryl Cooke
    What about the ones that like to ride alone. You said consider all angles, what about mine. I live in a quiet neighborhood and when I want to go for a ride, I glide my bike out until I’m on the main street. Don’t you think you ruined it for us lone riders too. Consider THAT.

  46. Hi Eric,

    The accidents as of late have been horrible. I was out riding around BC and got word that 4 accidents and 2 deaths had happened. Then I come home and this week we have had 3 accidents now. I hope that all who have survived their accidents have a speedy recovery and my heart goes out to those who have lost someone in the other two unfortunate cases. It is a reminder that we need to ride with responsibility and within our limits.

    I appreciate your explanation of my questions. This kind of discussion is what I was hoping to generate where people can respectfully express their opinions using factual information. Please know that I appreciate your input as I do have respect for most of the EPS. I mean let’s face it, you guys have your bad apples too. :)

    With that said, I am glad that you agree that there are cars and trucks that have fooled even you with your extensive background in riding. I appreciate the fact that you agree that sometimes it isn’t the bike. So please tell me why cars and trucks are not being targeted for excessive noise with their after market exhaust? Please don’t tell me there is no definitive test. In my humble opinion, a decible reader reads noise levels and some of those vehicles produce excessive noise at idle as well. Let’s also bring up the situation with the booming stereos. Or can we also discuss that cell phones cause far many more issues than a set of pipes. What about those doing their make-up? Can you honestly tell me that is a lessor evil? Why is that law not being pushed through as fast as something like the bylaw against only motorcycles?

    These are the bigger questions. I can safely say that distracted drivers are far more dangerous and cause far more accidents, some of which can be deadly. There are bigger and badder things for the EPS to deal with than pulling over and harassing motorcycle riders.

    You know I am not against the bylaw. With that said, other cities refuse to implement until it includes ALL forms of vehicles. My wish is that Edmonton would be smart enough to do the same. I hear that is supposed to happen in the next year so why not pull it back until it is no longer a discriminatory bylaw? I don’t think that is to much to ask for and frankly, neither do the majority supporting my petition to have that happen.

  47. Hi Geoff and Liane,

    Liane to start the bylaw does not infringe upon Sec 15 of the Charter, end of story. If you want to argue Sec 15 you’re going to have to change the Supreme Court of Canada’s many case law decisions. This is the last time I talk about police’s ability to pull over vehicles.

    Here is the reason why motorcycles are being tested and other vehicles currently are not. Please pay very close attention. Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators (CCMTA) coordinates all matters that deal with the administration, regulation and control of motor vehicle transportation and highway safety in Canada. Inside the CCMTA is the Standing Committee on Driver’s and Vehicles (D&V) which is responsible for all matters relating to motor vehicle registration and control, light vehicle standards and inspections, and driver licensing and control. They were the first group looking into creating a working group to seeking national standards on noise emissions. For different reasons the project was never completed. When that occurred the Motorcycle and Moped Industry Counsel (MMIC) stepped in working with their US counterparts (MIC) looking into a simplified test procedure. Their motivation was to improve the image of motorcycling, provide police with a standardized approach to measuring exhaust noise and mirror the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) pass-by standards. They looked at SAE J1287 (Measurement of Exhaust Sound Levels of Stationary off-road Motorcycles) to simplify it and apply it to on road motorcycles. SAE Motorcycle Committee formed Motorcycle Sound sub-committee to review SAE J1287. MIC PAID SAE about $500,000 to do this!!!!! From 2006-2007 the motorcycle industry conducted field tests with motorcycles (approx. 2000) equipped with various engine types and Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) and after market exhaust systems. Following the tests which included official EPA pass-by test, J1287, alternate J1287, Idle at 20 inches, J1287 + idle at alt. distances, J1287 + idle with alternative microphone orientation, stationary 20’’ test @ 2000 rpm and throttle blip test, a new standard was drafted, SAE J2825. It was finalized in Jan 2009.

    Between Aug and Sep 2009 CCMTA conducted there own tests using the J2825 procedure.
    Two conditions of the tests before it would be recognized and approved by the CCMTA were:
    a.) it must fail motorcycles which would fail the EPA pass by test
    b.) no false failures of those that meet the EPA standards

    Alberta conducted their own testing from Aug 18 – Aug 19 2009.

    J2825 is science based and motorcycle specific and can not be applied to other vehicles. I am not an acoustical or mechaical engineer so if you want a technical answer contact your local engineering consultant or SAE. The police are looking at J1492, 2008 “Measurement of Light Vehicle Stationary Exhaust System Sound Level Engine Speed Sweep Method” but there are many, many concerns right from the get-go. I’m not privy to go into detail about them but I can tell you that first and foremost is that no one offers training in that standard including SAE. And proper training is really, really important.

    I hope this answers everyone’s questons.

  48. Hi Liane,

    Before I answer your questions and just as a side note two separate serious injury M/C crashes in our City yesterday. Both motorcyclists rear ended other vehicles and were preventable on their part. Let’s hope they have a speedy recovery.

    Good questions. “The intensity of the sound is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the point source”. As sound transmits through a medium (air) there is an attenuation or dissipation of acoustical energy. The end result is that we are still only measuring the loudest sound source being the exhaust. From an acoustic standpoint, with some low dual exhaust systems the low side pipe could (remotely) have a reflected sound (phantom source) that might impact the data. This is really only possible in theory, but to resolve this, the standard was implemented to minimize both conditions. In order to take the sound measurement we provide for a 2.5 m sound field clearance away from any sound-reflecting surfaces (other then the ground). Curbs must not be any closer then 25 cms from the exhaust outlet. We have done our own experiments and even with a curb it causes very minimal difference in readings.

    As far as your friend’s concerns with his readings, I’m sorry that I don’t have a definitive answer. I know that the testing we provided was very much a learning experience for us an was part of our training. One possible answer is that the order of operations for the field calibration of the instrument was done incorrectly but as you can see there was a very clear and obvious error. In a real life scenario there would be no ticketing as the results are invalid. Our members have been sufficiently trained to identify any of these anomalies.

    I’ll be totally honest that I have been fool by sound of vehicles. Having said if I hear what I think is a M/C approaching and it turns out its’ not, no test is administered. With regards to pulling over vehicles the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that police can arbitrarily pull over a vehicle to 1) check vehicle documentation and driver’s license 2) check sobriety of the driver 3) and check the mechanical fitness of the vehicle.

    One last thing about the testing protocol. It took the acoustical and mechanical engineers 5 years to get J2825 out, testing close to 2000 M/C’s with every type of exhaust configuration. It is my opinion that if J2825 is used correctly police can manage our primary challenge of motorcycle noise control. This can be done in the field with affordable equipment and done with suitable precision.

    Scientifically and in theory it might not be completely possible to put an exact data point down to the tenth of a dB on all aspects of the sound, as we are not in the laboratory under ideal conditions, however we can be certain that we can identify the very loud vehicles that have a modified exhaust. Really this is the end goal.

  49. Hi Darryl,

    Could you please tell me where I stated that loud pipes saves lives? Read back on all my posts and quote me. I am NOT a believer in that theory whatsoever otherwise why would I have one of the quietest bikes out there? So please stop assuming that is how I think and that is why I am doing this.

    Also, please tell me where I am saying that commercial vehicles or lawn mowers need to be included? Again, NEVER have I said such a thing anywhere. I believe that passenger trucks and cars with after market exhaust need to be treated in the same fashion. And yes, I am sorry to say that there are a lot of cars and trucks that have much louder after market exhaust than some of the bikes out there.

    I love how you have seemed to lump everyone on a motorcycle into one category. Considering the amount of non-rider support we have received, I know better than to assume everyone who doesn’t ride shares your opinion and can see past the surface to what the issue really is. It shows that not everyone is ignorant to what happens at City Hall. People want to see this as an all-encompassing law and are fighting along side our group to ensure that happens.

    This bylaw infringes on section 15 of the charter of rights. It is also the exact defition of discrimination as defined above contrary to your belief of the defition of discrimination being to choose or decide. I DO NOT have an issue with the bylaw and the levels set. I have an issue where one group is held to one standard while others are not. Why else would the police report to the police commission clearly state that passenger cars, trucks AND motorcycles with after market exhaust are equally responsible for noise complaints. So why are they only targeting one group? I have done the research, found the supporting documentation and put my case together based on facts.

    I guess you also have an issue with all the hundreds of thousands of dollars, awareness and education we bring to light in our countless charity rides. Good thing we don’t discriminate against those who unfortunately require that funding we contribute. We do it for our community…that means EVERYONE in our community including people like you.

    Do you understand that now or do I have to make it even more clear?

  50. What I would like to know is, why are there two different standards for 2 cylinder engines as apposed to four cylinders? 96db for twins and 100db for inlines? Is noise not noise? If SOUND LEVEL is what is being measured, why the difference?
    I don’t have an issue with an all encompassing bylaw that includes ALL motor vehicles, but I strongly object to being singled out simply because of what I choose to drive.

  51. Hi Eric,

    I can buy that reasoning but then it makes me wonder how reliable the test is when sound is reverberated off of surrounding buildings, as you have clearly stated. By that same reasoning, one could very clearly see that the test would give a false reading. Would you not have to be in an open space to get an accurate reading? How else would my friends pass one day and fail the next with one even getting a reading of 96 without his bike even being turned on?

    How can you be certain that it is the bike over the car/truck? I have been around bikes for a very long time and even to this day I have been fooled by a truck I swore was a cruiser or a car that I thought was a sport bike. We are easily identifiable by look so you are just going to assume it is me making the noise?

  52. Liane:

    I will not be able to answer why other cities passed this or that bylaw.
    It is clear to me that your interest lies with the loud pipers, ergo, your attempt to deflect the harm some motorcyclists are causing
    by crying “discrimination”.
    Until motorcyclists clean up thier own act, they have no business claiming the moral high ground in making others do so.
    I would see the motive different if they all tossed the loud pipes first, and also logically allowed for vehicles that are a. Needful and b.)noisy
    by nature, BTW, none of which are anywhere near as loud as some S/P cycles
    And please don’t whack me with the silly save lives stuff either. If they feel that much in danger, get a car please.

  53. Hello Chat Group,

    Just wondering if anyone might be up to speed on the State law on motorcycle noise in California. I suppose they are following the same bylaw as the one in the City of Boston which is a $300 fine. I suppose the stamp they’re are refering to is the EPA stamp, stamped by the OEM or some other State approved noise evaluation label.

    SB 435, as amended, Pavley. Vehicles: pollution control devices.
    (1) Existing federal regulations require a motorcycle manufactured
    on and after January 1, 1983, and exhaust emission systems for those
    motorcycles, to meet specified noise emissions standards and require
    that a label be affixed onto the motorcycle or exhaust emission
    system indicating that the motorcycle or exhaust emission system
    meets the noise emissions standards.
    This bill would make it a crime for a person to park, use, or
    operate a motorcycle, registered in the state, that is manufactured
    on and after January 1, 2011 or a motorcycle, registered in the
    state, with aftermarket exhaust system equipment that is manufactured
    on or after January 1, 2011, that does not have the above label, and
    would make a violation of this provision punishable by a specified
    fine, thereby imposing a state mandated local program by creating a
    new crime. The bill would require the person to whom a notice to
    appear is issued, or against whom a complaint is filed, for the above
    violation, to provide proof of correction. The bill would
    authorize a court to dismiss the penalty imposed for a first
    violation if the person produces proof of correction to the
    satisfaction of the court.

  54. Hi Liane,

    Sorry about the late response. While one stands outside on the side of the road (Whyte Ave / Jasper Ave) and listens to traffic, you are able to hear a loud M/C (or car for that matter) approaching, is primarily due to the way the sound wave resonating off buildings and other solid objects. It gets emmited to the rear and bounced forward. Listen for that same vehicle on for example the Anthony Henday it can be a lot more challenging and you might not notice it until it’s passes. Same sound source but less surronding objects. This a vastly different scenerio then when is operating one’s own vehicle. It is increasing difficult to be able to hear and isolate a sound source. A car driver also has a lot more ambient noise to contend with such as the vehicle’s engine, closed windows, fans and radios. Remember that a large segment of driver’s are deaf or have deminished hearing and are unable to hear low frequency sounds.

  55. Sgt. Eric Theuser, I have a question. Your post on here states:

    “Exhaust pipes are orientated backwards emmitting sound to the rear. See the problem. I know your response will be some anecdotal experience when you were in your lane and some old lady was about to switch lanes into you but accelerated in time, alerting her to your presence thereby avoiding the collision. I going to assume that you never went and interviewed her about the close call. You just made an assumption that she never saw you to begin with, that she in fact heard the loud sound of your bike emmiting sound to the rear,…”

    But in an article in the CBC news found at http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/09/edmonton-noise-motorcycle-enforcement.html, you state:

    “We can hear them before we even see them coming down to our location,” Acting Staff Sgt. Eric Theuser said.”

    So which is it? Does the sound emit from the rear or do you hear the coming? A bit contradictory so I would like you to clarify which is the correct statement.

    Darryl,

    I find your passion for your side of the argument great because I love a great debate but if I am going to give you the respect of answering your questions, the least you can do is answer mine.

    Secondly, there are a ton of things that others do that invade my space but given that they are seasonal, I tend to let it go. Some of us are bigger than others. I am going to venture a guess you are not complaining when we are making noise to raise money and awareness for the countless charities our community supports? You know, things like prostate cancer, cancer in general, kids with cancer, CF, Stollery, Little Warriors (child victims of sexual abuse), Youth Emergency Shelter, E4C school lunch program, toy runs, etc…

  56. Sgt Eric Theuser, I have a question for you. In your post here you say:

    “Exhaust pipes are orientated backwards emmitting sound to the rear. See the problem. I know your response will be some anecdotal experience when you were in your lane and some old lady was about to switch lanes into you but accelerated in time, alerting her to your presence thereby avoiding the collision. I going to assume that you never went and interviewed her about the close call. You just made an assumption that she never saw you to begin with, that she in fact heard the loud sound of your bike emmiting sound to the rear,…”

    But in an article online at CBC news found at http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/09/edmonton-noise-motorcycle-enforcement.html, you state:

    “We can hear them before we even see them coming down to our location,” Acting Staff Sgt. Eric Theuser said.”

    So which is it? Can you hear them coming or does the sound only emit towards the back which would mean you can’t hear them coming until they are right there or more specifically past your position? You can see how both statements are completely opposite from each other. Sorry, but it had to be pointed out.

    Darryl,

    I find it intersting that you feel so strongly yet you fail to answer the questions I posed to you? I appreciate your passion for your argument but I answered your questions, fair is fair.

    Secondly, there are plenty of things that people do that are personal hobbies that create unecessary noise or I find offensive on other levels that invade my personal space. But given that most of them are “seasonal” I can just let it go. Some people are just bigger than others. :) I supposed you don’t mind the noise created when we are raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for the many charities we all support? You know, things like prostate cancer, kids with cancer, toy runs, CF rides, the stollery, Little Warriors (victims of child sexual abuse), Youth Emergency Shelter, the school lunch program, etc.

  57. Nathan:

    When a “personal hobby” invades hundreds of other’s personal space it’s no longer personal.
    We need city buses. We need lawn mowers.
    We do not need loud pipes. Even were one to humor the “saves lives” argument, then the
    most loving thing for you to do for your neighbor is get a car. Ouch. but it’s true.
    One motorbike for 3 seconds? Sorry but its more like 1 minute per bike every 10 minutes.
    I am angry, and I do hate loud bikes but am able to say I am trying not to express hatred to those
    who ride them, just point out that I will not stand any longer for my community being ruined by the thoughtless
    actions of some motorcyclists.

  58. I have removed the exhaust from my vintage bike (mentioned earlier in this thread) to examine its integrity. The metal baffle is in excellent shape and the fiberglass packing is new and tightly packed. (I tried packing the fiberglass more loosely, but it made the bike louder.) This week I spend considerable time (6 – 8 hours) having a welder fasten baffles inside my exhaust pipe in order to try to quiet the sound. I truly and sincerely hope that some of the “holier than thou” types in this forum experience some busy-body interfering with your personal hobby in this way. You deserve it.

    I spoke personally with a Sgt. in charge of all the traffic in Edmonton Police Service who told me that the measurements performed on my bike at the amnesty event (100, 102, 104) were almost certainly due to operator error. ie. police officer not conducting the test correctly. (This event was AFTER the police had been trained in the use of these meters!) Isn’t that reassuring?

    A family member who lives on a street where motorcycles speed by told me they are very annoying, but what really annoys him is the city buses. A city bus will sit at the curb and idle for 10 minutes, during which people INSIDE their houses have to turn up the TV to hear the sound. He has never had to turn up his TV because a motorbike went by.

    It was amusing to me to see one poster in this discussion dismiss complaints about lawnmowers and buses as “lame.” That is a very poor response, friend, to a serious issue. I was working outside (in my trade) last week and lawn care workers were working in the yards on either side, as well as in the yard where I was. For 2 1/2 hours I had to turn off my iPod because I was unable to listen to it due to the lawnmowers and weed whackers. A motorbike riding by for 3 seconds and disappearing would have been a blessing compared to the unholy ruckus I was subjected to.

    Apparently you’re simply an angry citizen who hates motorbikes. If you were truly concerned about noise or hearing safety, ALL dangers would be a concern to you, especially chronic noise.

  59. Hi Darryl,

    You’re welcome for my response. Your points are understood but it brings up a question I have for you. Why are other cities (ie Calgary) able to pass an all-encompassing and non-discriminatory bylaw? You give someone an inch and they will continue to take more. There is absolutely no reason that ALL vehicles could not have been included. There is no such thing as a decible reader that only reads noise levels from motorcycles.

    Once again, I am not against the bylaw. I am for fairness and equality on ALL levels. This very much is the definition of discrimination and I do view any form of discrimination as a negative, as should anyone. The definition of discrimination is “treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit”. Please tell me where that means, and I quote you now, ‘To discriminate really means to choose or decide”.

    Hello Admin,

    I would like to add to your point about the “accuracy” of the $24,000 worth of equipment that the EPS purchased even BEFORE the bylaw was even passed. I have quite a few people who went down for the free testing at the south NAIT campus both days. One day they passed, the next they failed. One actually failed even before he turned his bike on. How is that even possible?

    Although they have involved the MMIC and attempted to follow SAE standards, from what I understand, it doesn’t appear that things were thought through quite enough and simply managed to get City Council to pass a bylaw that wasn’t ready or thoroughly tested.

    Hello Jerry,

    To your post regarding the police bikes not passing, I have a good friend who happens to ride for the EPS and spoke to him about that rumor. As far as I have been told, and based on the many people I know that ride similar Harley’s with stock pipes, those bikes have ALL passed. I understand we all have our issues with the EPS but as much as we as riders do not want to be painted with the same brush, please don’t do that with the EPS. They have their bad apples too.

  60. This bylaw irritates me to no end…but not for the commonly stated reasons.

    I have 2 motorcycles. One of the bikes is 11 years old. It is in great shape but has had an aftermarket pipe for the greater part of those 11 years. It will fail the stage 3 test for sure. What exactly does the government expect me to do here. Pay ~$1000 for a new exhaust system and tuning for an 11 year old bike when I am sure it’s total worth is less than $4000. Or do they expect me to park and not ride this bike, which serves as a vehicle to get me to work in the summer? Basically, this law is forcing those who are in this situation to shell out large sums of money for parts they may or may not be able to get anymore. Furthermore, in a scenario where I can install a different exhaust system there is no way for me to verify, prior to spending the money, that it will infact meet the requirements of this bylaw. I highly doubt there is a vendor out that that will install and test a system….then refund you if it doesn’t meet the limits. So say, I do install and it still fails because I couldn’t pre-test it…do I get another ticket, do I have to shell out another $1000? Are there facilities to have a new systems tested?

    I am willing to invest some money to meet the questionable requirements/purpose of this by-law. However, I am reluctant to do so in fear that it will be a wasted effort. Why doesn’t this law consider modifications that were made prior to the induction of this law? Laws by nature are supposed to be reasonable and logical. I hardly see how asking owners in this scenario to shell out oodles of cash with no guarantee is reasonable or logical nor is intimidating them into selling or permanently parking their vehicles.

    My other motorcycle is a cruiser that I customized. I purchased the pipes for their look on the bike, there was no documentation available indicating their DB level for my bike! Installed, they failed the test that was held a couple of weeks back on Gateway Blvd. Again, the modifications were done long prior to the induction of this law. Was I supposed to request the DB level at idle and 2000 rpm from the vendor for my bike? I doubt they would have supplied that information, otherwise it would be posted on their site. This makes me question the real purpose for the law. Should the law also state, no after-market exhaust modifications?
    As a rider who largely uses his bikes as commuter vehicles I can tell you that I am somewhat concerned that I might have to shell out more than $2000 … and could still garner a ticket for riding down Whitemud at 4 in the afternoon. Arguments such as “Loud pipes save lives” and “Discrimination” are subjective and can be argued on either side by “experts”. However, I do wonder how my scenarios could be argued in context of an “ex post facto” law. I supposed this is related to criminal laws, but I consider taking $2000 out of my pocket unfairly as a crime.

    –In Canada, ex post facto criminal laws are constitutionally prohibited by section 11(g) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Also, under section 11(i) of the Charter, if the punishment for a crime has varied between the time the crime was committed and the time of a conviction, the convicted person is entitled to the lesser punishment.–

    I wouldn’t mind hearing the Sgt. give his input on my posting…providing he doesn’t insult me by calling me a 16 year old girl.

  61. I am dead against straight pipes on bikes and always have been.
    My situation is this:
    I own five motorcycles all with the stock mufflers they were legally imported with and allowed to be sold in this country by the federal government of Canada. Two of them are antique being 1971 and 1974. The stock mufflers will not pass the arbitrary guidelines in this bylaw. In fact, I noticed a video on the Edmonton Journal site which demonstrated how the test was being conducted and it was on a city police Harley. It showed the Harley passing at idle, but somehow the video mysteriously ended before the 2000 RPM test was demonstrated. I mentioned this to a Harley mechanic and
    he said this was because the police bike couldn’t pass the test either. Maybe the city should “put their money where ther mouth is” All motorcyclists interested should be able to witness the testing of all police bikes owned by the city or the Province for that matter followed by random testing to insure their ar no parts swapped out (EPS is above this kind of deceit I hope) after the original test. If they fail, then take them off the road and quiet them down or reassign their
    riders as beat cops. We can always use more of those. You can’t have the hypocrisy of an officer on a police bike giving tickets for noise violations that could be in violation too. Not if you are interested in respect for law enforcement.

    Take note that all stock 4.6 liter Mustangs are probably borderline or above the standard and this is only one performance car of a long list of performance care that won’t pass if tested as the bikes i.e. 19 inches from the pipe. In fact, this would probalbly take virtually all trucks, and busses and LRTs( no exhaust, just do the test 19 inches away as it passes you if you dare) off the streets and tracks.

  62. Hi Angela:
    Thanks for contributing to this post.

    I’ve been told that when police test the sound emitted from motorcycle mufflers. police perform three (3) different tests of the motorcycle in idle mode and another three (3) for motorcycles at 5000 RPM’s. The readings can fluctuate as much as 4 decibels (ie-first reading 100.3dB, second reading 102dB and the third reading at 104dB) which calls into question the effectiveness, reliability and accuracy of the noise meter kits purchased at $3000 a kit, by the Edmonton Police force.

    An Edmontonian emailed me and informed me that while the police in Edmonton used their noise meter kit to measure the sound from his motocycle muffler, he used his Decibel Meter (found as an app on his iPhone see: http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/decibel-meter/id289219810?mt=8) which he wrote was pretty accurate.

    It would be interesting to test the accuracy and reliability of the noise meter kits recently purchased by the Edmonton Police department, versus the Decibel Meter which can be utilized in an iPhone.

    Every instrument that measures sound is very delicate and there has to be a margin of error associated with the use of such equipment.

    Remember to http://fightyourtickets.ca

  63. I belong to 5 Goldwing forums and as this topic is hot rught now on a couple of them. Here in BC the police are armed with & enforce excessive noise of M/C and I am sorry but it is mostly H-D’s that fit this bill.

    Here it is illegal to run straight pipes, but there is nothing in the bylaws that target M/C’s. It targets excessive noise, and this can be in the form of lawnmower & weed wackers. I work nights and have done so for years but what choice do I have but to use earplugs in the summer when everyone of you homeowners out there are spucing up your yards with lawnmowers or chainsaws or circular saws for that matter.

    Edmontons Bylaw is wrong and it is Discriminatory as it targets a large segment of the population & like me have a very quiet Baby and she is a vintage 1985 Goldwing. One previous post was right. We as motorcylists should police our own, but how do you do that when the offendes in a lot of cases are highly respected businessmen ( maybe even some of those very Councillors), that ride only on weekends where as the rest of us ride as much as weather will allow & in a lot of cases during that nasty weather.

    One thing you all could do is purchase your own noise meters and take them into your nieghbourhood & document the lawnmowers and present these inding with your petitions.

  64. Rob:
    Is it not quite a stretch to say that all drivers are that distracted
    just because they drive a 4 wheeled item? Should I
    think that bike drivers are doing the same? ( I don’t)
    Paying attention to the road and driving defensively is the
    responsibility of all motorists.
    No one has the “right” to irritate anyone.
    And loud pipes emit more out the back end than the front.

    A horn and a reflective vest and driving defensively is better
    than one person harming and offending hundreds of citizens.

    Darryl C

  65. Hi Liane:

    Thank you for your response.

    The reason the police could not enforce the current laws is that everyone was saying that
    it’s subjective. The meters answer that query.
    I agree there are cars and trucks that do make noise because they are modified to do so.
    These will also be dealt with as they develop the standards for them.
    As for normal semi’s, buses, and even the humble lawn mower being factored in to the argument, it really is lame. At least you agree that the limits are reasonable and I hope
    you can encourage others to act with consideration. If other bikers had done this at the
    start, we would not be talking about or needing a bylaw.

    So they started this with loud motorcycles. Ok. Here’s why.
    I can’t sit in my own back yard without listening to a constant stream of
    bikes blasting around the neighborhood.
    How can this not be a problem? And what if anything is the bike community
    willing to do about it?
    I never hear this type of repeated racket coming from buses, and we have
    a lot of buses that go around the loop road.
    How about petitioning your own to ride more responsibly and get rid of
    the straight pipes?

    The word discrimination can be over used in a lot of ways and wrongly presented
    as if it is a negative event.
    To discriminate really means to choose or decide.
    Many have finally decided that noise pollution needs to be addressed
    and I think its got to start somewhere and to split hairs over “fairness”
    when the real issue is a profound lack of acting on this question
    that we all need to ask ourselves:
    “Am I acting in a way that loves my neighbor as myself?”.

    It has not been “fair” to have had to endure the noise for the last x
    years due to someone else’s lack of consideration.
    Given how the loud bike is at the top of the known offender list, it
    seems reasonable to start there.

    Tks
    Darryl C

  66. Wait a minute I’m not done. The AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) states that nothing contributes more to discrimination of the motorcycle community by the general public then excessive loud pipes. This is their words. How many people with loud pipes have you told to change because you don’t like being discriminated against by the general public? Probably none. You don’t have to look any further then the United States to see the discrimination has manifested to the point that motorcycles are not allowed down certain street and state and federal parks no matter how loud or quiet your bike is. This has been challenged and lost in federal courts because they ruled that you can only discriminate against a person, not a motor vehicle. The EPS and the Motorcycle and Moped Industry Counsel (MMIC) both don’t want this to happen. I think that this is unfair to courteous riders and if you don’t think this could happen in Canada your kidding yourself. This is not just a bylaw. This is a national engine that’s driving this across Canada. It will a Provincial law by next year. If this don’t get a hold of the problem I could see Canada following the same suit as Europe in dealing with motorcycle noise emmisions. Do your homework.

  67. Mr. Evans,

    I am the member tasked with making this program operational within the Service. I have been working on this project for the last 5 months and am on the National Standing Committee. A little bit about myself. I have in fact been riding for 20 years. I was a member of the Harley Davidson Owner’s Group and a member of the Blue Knight’s law Enforcement M/C club. I have rode as a member of E.P.S. Traffic Section for the last seven years. I believe this qualifies me as a rider. I have also been declared an in Provincial Court as an expert in collision reconstruction and as a collision investigator. I have attended and investigated over 300 fatal and serious injury collisions, with a significant number involving motorcycles. Motorcycle riding isn’t for everyone. You are 80 % more likely to be seriously injured or killed if involved in a collision. It goes with out saying 95 % of M/C collisions involve a threat from the front. Exhaust pipes are orientated backwards emmitting sound to the rear. See the problem. I know your response will be some anecdotal experience when you were in your lane and some old lady was about to switch lanes into you but accelerated in time, alerting her to your presence thereby avoiding the collision. I going to assume that you never went and interviewed her about the close call. You just made an assumption that she never saw you to begin with, that she in fact heard the loud sound of your bike emmiting sound to the rear, she pinpointed the source of the noise to your vehicle and then took appropriate evasive action all in a matter of a couple of seconds or else for sure you would have been struck. The bottom line is that proper protective equipment and following the rules of the road contribute more to saving lives then your loud bike. But if you don’t like visible clothing, protective equipment and following the rulesof the road I suppose you better pray that those loud pipes work. Like I said, motorcycle riding isn’t for everyone. I suppose I should duct tape the horn down in my car…just in case your right. Yourself and 16 year old girls have a lot in common…got to be as loud as possible and the center of attention.

  68. Hi All,
    Do any of the people who are so against loud pipes actually ride ? Maybe they should be put on a bike in rush hour traffic with quiet pipes and see how long it takes before they are lying on the pavement. You all say you have a right to peace and quiet…… why does your right to peace and quiet outweigh my right to live?? In my opinion, if you are to self absorbed with drinking your coffee, putting on your makeup, doing your hair, shaving, talking on your cell phone ( which i cant speak for Edmonton, but here in SK is ILLEGAL) , playing with your GPS, and countless other distractions while driving to even notice that you drifted into my lane and pushed me into oncoming traffic to avoid letting you hit me, I have the right to make noise and irritate you! Because at least if im pissing you off with my loud pipes, you know im there, and i have at least a little chance of gaining your attention long enough that i dont end up lying on the pavemnet. I have had to go as far as to reach into a cars window and pull the cell phone from the drivers face to get his attention while he was drifting in and out of my lane, if i can reach into your window you are in my space!!!! Or better yet the city bus driver whom did cause me to end up sliding across the pavement when he decided to go from parked on the side of the road across 3 lanes of traffic into the left turn lane directly infront of me ……….. his excuse ” I didnt even see you there”

    So maybe before people are so quick to judge and criticise my immature need for loud pipes, they should stop to think how many bikes they have almost run over because they didnt see them until too late, and then stop to think about how many bikes they dont even know they almost ran over because they didnt see them at all……………………

    Call me immature, egotistical, a show off, whatever you like, but as a 700lb vehicle fighting against thousands of 3000lb + vehicles every time i ride, ill use any means i can to stay alive!

  69. Hi Darryl,

    The actual levels set are reasonable in my opinion and yes, the few bad apples out there need to be handled but could have been under the laws as they stood. Excessive noise on after market pipes generally comes from excessive acceleration or simply riding like an idiot. Stunting, speeding and driving with undue care and attention could have handled this but the police don’t seem to be able to enforce any laws they have been given in the first place.

    There are plenty more trucks and cars out there year round that make as much if not more noise than most bikes. Why are they not being held to the same standards? You honestly can not believe that a decible reader will only read noise levels from motorcycles. Decible readers read noise levels of anything you hold it up against. There is no reason why the trucks and cars could not have been included. That is where my issue is and why I wrote the petition. Discrimination should not be tolerated on ANY level by anyone in our country.

    Another thing that is interesting, why is it that this fine is $250 when all other noise infractions are $115?

    For the record, we have recorded thousands of signatures already and have been given a lot of support from the non-riding community. I am pleasantly surprised that most people we talk to who take the time to understand what has happened can see past the surface to what the actual issue is.

    I am in no way throwing around discrimination. What city council has done is the exact definition. There is one set of laws for some and another set of laws for everyone else. Please tell me how that is not discrimination?

    To everyone else on here that sees this for what it is, thank you for your support. We all need to stand up and let our government know on every level that discrimination is not acceptable. Please remember, it is an election year in Edmonton.

  70. Gary:
    Pardon my blunt approach, no slam is meant, just discussion.
    I am not buying your argument. All of the things you mention eg lawn mowers et al are understood.
    But a straight pipe (or a dodge diesel with “blast-em Dan-O” pipes) are not. Put a lawn mover next to a straight pipe bike or the Dodge and they will blow the mower away.
    Many motocyclists operate quiet pipes and manage to do so safely.
    And as for giving up your “right” to loud pipes, you don’t have it to give up anyway.
    Why is it so difficult to get this simple message of being considerate to others across to so many?
    I am careful to give bikes room and awareness just as I do a car or truck.

  71. Something that has not been mentioned here is fact that where it states that:

    The Edmonton Police Services will charge violators at three (3) benchmark noise levels:

    1. Violators in excess of 92 db(A) at idle for all motorcycles; or

    2. Violators in excess of 96 db(A) at 2000 rpm for motorcycles having less than 3 cylinders; or more than 4 cylinders; and/or

    3. Violators in excess of 100 db(A) at 5000 rpm for motorcycles with 3 or 4 cylinders

    Nowhere in the bylaw does is mention 3 benchmark levels, it does not give the police discretion to differentiate between 2- 3- 4 or more cylinders, nor does it mention 100 db!! Police powers to do what they want? I don’t think so. This bylaw will be thrown out of court in my opinion.

  72. Edward Hiscock, do you have a lawn mower? Its louder than most bike and its not passing by. Do you have a snow blower , its also much louder. How about a diesel truck ? How about city buses. How about city lawn mowers, service vehicles, parades, kids yelling on the street, planes flying overhead, snowmobiles, street work, jackhammers.

    These are all every day things that do not pass by you, but are quite close to you and produce sounds over 10x as loud as a bike.

    Now how about you get on a quiet motorcycle, and see what its like to be run down by a driver that doesn’t check his/her mirrors, or is texting or cell phone talking. If you hear us , you may not kill us.

    I don’t agree with people driving like idiots and over reving.

    But if we are to give up out rights , get out your scissors and start cutting your grass. YOU SHOULD TO!

  73. This is a response to Kevin.
    Kevin, after reading your post I have a few questions if I may.
    1. Do you at any degree at all agree that loud pipes on bikes is causing residents distress/ discomfort?
    2. Should residents have the quiet enjoyment of their property? Should you decide when they get to do so ( the timing of your ride) or should society as a whole through gonvernment?
    3. When a decision others make(loud pipes) afffects so many, is it at all surprising that the affected would finally speak up?
    4. Why do you feel you have a “right” to loud pipes?

    No slam to you intended, but like it or not the momentum to clamp down on this is building.

  74. As we do need more people like Liane Langlois to make a stand and fight for what is right.
    Rights? It would seem to me Edmonton’s residents do not have many left, as a motorcycle enthusiast I don’t just believe loud pipes save life’s I KNOW THEY DO. But pipes without baffles or baffles that are drilled/punched out are not necessary, these are easy to detect, simply inspect the exhaust system. (Our EPS might need to bend down and assess the exhaust) There was no need for the sound testing equipment that the city purchased with yes more wasted tax dollars, $17000.00 plus the wages/countless hours/meetings of our fine city council members to come up with such discriminating matter such as the one at hand.
    Quote” Although the development process has started, it will be some time before new provincial legislation is proclaimed and enforcement rolled out. As a consequence, a bylaw contingency plan was developed to fill the gap. <–How much tax money has been wasted I for one would like to know exact hours for meeting, hours for development office and there law department has clocked for this one???

    As for the childish comment: MID AGE MEN or JUST NEED TO GROW UP. bla bla.
    Unfortunately most are middle-aged riders since it takes half ones life to afford one. For most it’s a hobby/way of life or what ever you need to call it, for me it’s a way to unwind, relax and visit with other bike enthusiasts. NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO TAKE THAT AWAY… I FOR ONE WILL FIGHT THE TICKET IN COURT AND YES I WILL WIN EVERY TIME. There is a thing we call human rights and discrimination. There is also way to many variables to determine decibel readings…environment officer testing has he done the test absolutely flawless or maybe some EPS officer handling the decibel reader has dropped it and now this expensive electrical devise no longer has correct readings, weather conditions. I could continue and continue but I feel no need. The courts will see this has been a complete waste of time and money. I see the court house will be very busy in the days to come and if you fight it you will win no doubt about it…
    I just can't wait to see what will be next
    (Maybe a citywide curfew no person or person shall leave there dwelling between the hours of 11:00 PM and 6:00 AM) Keep fighting Liane Langlois; I'll have my many full petitions sheet in before the deadline. :)

  75. The city of Edmonton did a great service to its citizens by passing such a law. Motor cycles can be as quiet as any passenger car, and some of them are. Only obnoxious selfish Idiots get pleasure from causing noise pollution. Loud motor cycles are terrible.

  76. Lianne: Do you have any thoughts on the residents concern with the noise? I have nothing against bikes, but why should I lose sleep or peace because a large number of people choose to make such noise pollution.Discriminatory? I think the way you are using that word completely ignores the fact there is a problem in the city with loud pipes. I was downtown Ft Mac the other night and some winner with his girl on the back was cracking the throttle and doing nothing but “showing off”. Totally straight pipe, a hellacious racket. All right in front of hi density apartments. I see this a lot. When I see the bikers taking some responsibility for this issue, I might feel better. Please consider all angles.

  77. Hi Liane:
    I admire the fight that you are engaged in to have this discriminatory bylaw repealed. I hope that you can organize and encourage approximately 79,000 Edmontonians to sign your petition. 92 or 96 decibels are 92 or 96 decibels of sound; whether a truck or car or factory or motorcycle generates or emits that sound pressure. The only one on City Council who appears to have carefully exercised his judgement, with respect to the vote on the adoption of this bylaw amendment was City Councillor Dave Thiele of Ward 6.

    I hope that the people of Edmonton can see this bylaw for what it really is and support your cause and sign your petition so that the City of Edmonton will think twice before bowing to public pressure from a few and pass a bylaw that is both exclusionary and discriminatory and neglect to address the issue of hundreds of thousands of other motor vehicles (excluding approximately 13,000 motorcycles) on the roads of Edmonton making noise and causing much more damage to the earth than the more earth friendlier bikes.

    It is ironic that the Mayor of Edmonton, Mayor Stephen Mandel, has proclaimed June, 2010 to be “bike month” (see: http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/news/14681.aspx ) when on June 9, 2010 the City Council took aim at another group of “bikes” which should be promoted and not targetted.

    Again, Liane, I both respect and admire you for fighting City Hall in an effort to throw out a law which you consider to be patently unreasonable and discriminatory in its practice. Canada needs alot more Liane Langlois’.

    I wish you all the best in your struggle. Keep http://fightyourtickets.ca updated. It will be very nice to hear from you.

    Remember to always http://fightyourtickets.ca and City Hall when they have implemented a law which on the face of it, is just wrong!

  78. This City may have managed to get this bylaw passed but it won’t be enforced without a fight. We have 60 days from the day it passed to collect the signatures. There are more than 20 businesses on board not to mention the amazing amount of volunteers out on the “problem” streets like Whyte Avenue collecting signatures from non-riders who agree this bylaw is discriminatory. We have a lot of support.

    There have been people who are doing tests with various types of decibel readers and stock bikes are failing. I am well under but my problem with the bylaw is that ALL vehicles need to be held to the same standards. The police and council claim the devices purcahsed (before the law even passed mind you) can miraculously only register the noise from a motorcycle. That must be one hell of a device considering that there are many different tones to many different bikes.

    I 100% stand behind anyone getting a ticket and taking it to court. This battle on the streets with the petition is of awareness and education to the public as it is an election year but the real fight will be won in court.

  79. This is discrimination against bikers that ride 3 months a year! Maybe all the rides that us bikers take place in we should have them in an outside town? Bikers in Edmonton raise a lot of money for Santa’s toy run and Kids
    with cancer etc. Maybe Edmonton city council should think about some of that?

  80. Hi Nathan: It doesn’t appear that there are any exemptions built into this bylaw that would preclude your vintage bike. That being the case, you will attract a number of $250.00 tickets. The City has managed to do what it intended and that is to eliminate bikes (and the corresponding decibel level) in their city. http://fightyourtickets.ca

  81. So where does this leave owners of vintage motorcycles with properly baffled mufflers that exceed the bylaw’s limits? In restoring my 1984 motorbike, I was unable to buy factory mufflers because they are no longer available. Therefore I had to buy mufflers from an aftermarket company (only one company had the parts available). The replacement pipes are louder than factory pipes, although they have complete baffles installed.

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